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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To not want to raise a child into this vicious, dog-eat-dog, cut-throat country?

330 replies

summergal250 · 08/07/2022 23:44

Really I'm pretty close to giving up on the idea of one day having kids.

Why?

Unless you're rich, everything in the country is just an endless, ceaseless, dog-eat-dog fight over scraps. Day after day, month after month, year after year. I don't want my child to have to deal with this crap.

Examples:
. I'm currently having issues with the landlord over various repairs he's dragging his feet on. His attitude is, if you don't like it move. I pay £700 for this crappy shoebox. I could just move - again - or threaten court action, which as empty as any money I'd get from that would be wiped out by legal fees.

. This is like my 10th rental in 12 years. EVERY single one them had at least one serious issue with it - mice, damp, noise issues, no washing machine, landlords entering property etc. Out all of them only one landlord was actually a decent person - all the rest having been lying, cheating, two-faced money-grubbers. Of course, not a problem if mummy and daddy can give you a deposit. In my 30s yet feel as I'm trapped in a permanent state of being 21.

. I work full time and do freelance in my spare time. I constantly look for new, better paying roles and I have been saving for a deposit for years and as house prices just rise and rise it feels I'm getting nowhere. I'm almost at the point of saying, why bother? How is it fair to raise a kid in some crummy tiny flat? The housing issue has been a problem for 20 years and NOTHING has been done - every year it just gets worse and worse. Meanwhile smug boomers who bought their semi for £80K in 1979 bang on about avocados.

. I got conned into doing a degree which every adult in my teens said would be a ticket to a great future. Instead, all it represents is a massive pile of debt and a waste of three years. Yet, even a receptionist job now insists on a degree, so you have to do it, even though only a degree from Oxbridge or a top redbrick is worth anything these days.

. Jobs - graduated into the recession. I've had jobs where I've been bullied, others with psycho bosses, others with vicious backstabbing 'colleagues'. Constantly the implicit threat of - if you don't like it we'll fire you. Felt I was finally getting somewhere in my old job and then was made redundant during covid. Cue several months of soul-destroying unemployment. The job I have now is ok but less well paid then my old one - so, more struggle, more jostling for favour, wasting more of my free time looking for a better paid jobs, more endless rounds of interviews. I feel like I've been going up the down escalator the entire time. Every year it seems the jobs market gets fiercer, more competitive, more brutal and cut-throat.

. The low pay means I spend large chunks of my free time freelancing. I enjoy it but it can be exhausting. Atm I'm embroiled in a dispute with a client who is refusing to pay for some completed work (with £700) - turns out he's con man with a dodgy past. I'm having to take him to a small claims court - yet more of my time and energy wasted.

. Similar to an occasion a few months back where a hotel Cornwall was nothing like the pics when I got there - it was in a disgusting state. I cancelled and went elsewhere, and then was embroiled in a 3 month battle to get my money back, with the owner only relenting when I got the local council involved.

Spotting a pattern?

If you're not rich in this country everything's just a pointless, exhausting fight to keep your head above water. Every economic interaction is just a vicious bare-knuckle fight, with people out to shaft you for what they can. Honestly, if it wasn't for my family and friends I really would have just given up on the human race.

I won't go into the this country's general lack of manners, the yobbish behaviour of many people here, the rows of homeless tents in out high streets, the crappy education system, the utterly broken and corrupt political system, and the general utter madness society seems to fall further into with every passing year. The quality of life here just deteriorates every year.

So, basically, I don't want to inflict this on a child. My life is worse than my parents - fact. I'm doubt I'll ever reach their level. If you're not rich, children have no future in this country - just an endless treadmill of debt and exploitation. And every trend I've discussed above is getting worse - I just dread to think how things will be when they grew up.

And before people start saying, 'maybe it's you' - believe you me, I've fought coming to these conclusions tooth and nail. Grew up in a firm Old Labour home - solidarity and all that. I used to be the classic caring, sharing, naive people-pleaser - after years of being taken advantage of and shafted I've bit by bit given up. Now all I care about is myself, my family and my immediate friends.

OP posts:
BetterFuture1985 · 14/07/2022 16:02

This pretty much sums up modern Britain. I'm stuck here because I have an ex-wife and my children live here. When the youngest finishes his A-Levels, I'm leaving and never coming back.

BruisedSkies · 14/07/2022 16:13

The housing issue is indeed a huge problem. Rent prices are astronomical and so much more than a mortgage.

I haven’t had issues with customer service like you.

I have had big problems with bullying in jobs but have finally found a job where everyone is lovely and just gets on with their work. No drama.

Edwardoo · 14/07/2022 16:13

That was a very negative and depressing read. It's probably best to forget about having children because you are taking so much to heart and sound incredibly unhappy and angry (I'm not judging whether you are right or wrong just commenting on the sentiment).
Having children tests you to no end and if you already feel like life is a hard struggle, adding children is not going to make things easier. I'm not sure another country necessarily has everything better, where is this Utopia that is so much better than the UK? If you look close enough everywhere has decay and corruption.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 14/07/2022 16:16

Isn't it amazing how many refugees will risk their lives and their life savings to get to this shit-hole?

mackthepony · 14/07/2022 16:16

Couldn't agree more op.

The rich get richer and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

mackthepony · 14/07/2022 16:18

Isn't it amazing how many refugees will risk their lives and their life savings to get to this shit-hole?

^
Poor argument. From third world countries, yes the UK is a good option.

But do we really think that what the op describes is something to aim for? We should just be happy with poor accommodation, education and job opportunities? That's really what we're striving for?

Come on

hurtyb · 14/07/2022 16:20

Isn't it amazing how many refugees will risk their lives and their life savings to get to this shit-hole?

🙄

alphapie · 14/07/2022 16:20

YABU

you don't have to be 'rich' to not have these issues in life, you just don't have to be poor.

Thankfully most don't live in poverty

JanisMoplin · 14/07/2022 16:21

Heh. Millions of children worldwide are raised in tiny flats. I grew up in one myself and I don't consider myself deprived. This obsession with having a garden is a uniquely British thing. Also, most other countries are a lot more cut throat.

Of course, you don't have to have children if you don't want to or find the idea too overwhelming.

beastlyslumber · 14/07/2022 16:21

This is such an angry and miserable thing to read. Maybe go and live in another country for a while and you might then appreciate the opportunities and freedoms you have here. You are putting way more energy into your problems than into finding solutions. Cheer up! Stop blaming the world and start making positive changes in your life.

Twizbe · 14/07/2022 16:21

Spotting a pattern? Yes - you!

Negativity breeds negativity.

Try searching for the joy or positives in your situations. Stop finding someone else to blame - your landlords, your parents, your uni, your income, your hotel choices etc etc etc.

NightsinBlueSatin · 14/07/2022 16:24

I left the UK when I met my husband in another European country. We got married here and have lived here nearly 10 years. I've learnt the language, my husband works hard to support us, I'm a SAHM to 3 children (used to work before kids, will return when youngest goes to school at 3) This lifestyle isn't available to us in the UK, it's not even an option. I miss my family; my parents, my siblings and it's sad my kids don't get to see their grandparents often but it's a trade off. I'm not saying it's perfect but there is an easiness to life here that I don't think exists in the UK or the US for that matter.

MoodyTwo · 14/07/2022 16:25

I really don't think the rich are happy either, I think it depends on your outlook ok life, some people have nothing and are happy, some people have everything and are depressed

orangeisthenewpuce · 14/07/2022 16:28

Don't have a child then. It's up to you. No one is bothered. It's not really an Aibu question.

Saragossa · 14/07/2022 16:29

There is a recent thread about UK parents' attitude to education, and how other cultures value it more and really push their children to get good marks.

Unfortunately, instead of having a UK degree meaning that you can get a good job, these days you need a degree and a masters, and even then it doesn't guarantee a good job.

Parents from some other cultures steer their children towards medicine, law, or accountancy where a decent salary is a given.

I suppose I 'm saying that our education system has become devalued, with every child now expected to go to university. In my day (50 years ago), 5% of the population went to university. I don't know what the percentage is today but I would think at least 80%.

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 16:35

I think that you are extrapolating too far from your own experience.

There are millions of families in normal jobs who are managing to make ends meet well enough.

My husband’s family have ordinary jobs (teachers, doctors, nurses, engineers, plumbers etc.) and where they live (not in the South East) that gets a nice house, a reliable car, and some money left over for a holiday and some entertainment. You sound as though you may live alone, so of course that tends to make things more expensive too.

Stichintime · 14/07/2022 16:35

You sound really negative. It was draining just reading a part of your post. Yes, it can be really shit, but theres loads of good stuff. Multi cultural society, NHS, reasonable free education system,fantastic countryside and coast, great capital city and loads of free stuff going on.

Maybe it depends where you live in the UK, rather than the UK as a whole? Being brought up Labour you already knew the massive gap between rich and poor. I'm not saying we should all just accept it, I'm saying a positive out look may be beneficial to you.

StinkyWizzleteets · 14/07/2022 16:35

OP I hear you!
It’s scary how quickly the average person/family can fall into poverty and insecure housing/work and yet these billionaire and millionaire Tory bastards just get richer and have managed to persuade millions in this country to be ok with that situation as they doff their caps at their masters.

Chattycathydoll · 14/07/2022 16:36

Agreed, OP, and those blaming it on your mindset are clearly not poor themselves. It is a never ending cycle, you win one fight only to move onto the next. People (specifically homeowners a lot of the time) don’t seem to realise this. We’re constantly living in precarious dependency on someone else’s goodwill.

My DD was unplanned. I used to be very principled but am now doing things like applying for her to go to private school on bursary (despite loathing the concept of private schools) simply so she has as many advantages as possible.

worriedatthistime · 14/07/2022 16:38

Except many of those problems you would face elsewhere as well
Have you considered a change of area which is more affordable ? Change of career, what is your degree in and how much a month do you actually pay back as its based on income
Crap hotels etc can happen to anyone thats just bad luck

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 16:39

mackthepony · 14/07/2022 16:16

Couldn't agree more op.

The rich get richer and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

The antipathy seems to run both ways. There are some awful attitudes on here towards anyone in a high-paying job, and yet the same people posting these things then expect the higher earners to care enough to pay more taxes to be redistributed.

It’s not really a tenable position to hold; given your views of richer people to expect that they will view you any differently.

sayanythingelse · 14/07/2022 16:39

I relate to so much of this. The only difference is, I already have children and I'm finally getting on to the property ladder this year after years of saving and living in rotten rental properties.

Millennials have definitely been sold a lie as we have boomer parents, so we all expected to follow in their footsteps and get a job, get married, buy a house, have some kids, and have the mortgage paid off in your 40's/50's. This was manageable even on one average salary. Now it's tricky on 2 salaries. If we don't overpay, I'll be 70 when our mortgage ends.

I don't think being rich would solve all of your problems though. My boss is a self made millionaire and although I'd certainly like to have his house and sports cars, I don't envy the stress I see him through on a daily basis managing an international company. It certainly gives his kids and easy life but it's given him plenty of health problems. Atleast I can go home at the end of the day and not think about work again until 9am.

gogohmm · 14/07/2022 16:40

Sorry but that's just negativity. I'm not rich but I have a nice life, my kids had a nice upbringing. We moved out of London so money went a lot further. I'm a bit older than you so buying was a bit cheaper but we didn't earn a lot, we borrowed 4x his salary (I was home with the kids, one has sen)

Happiness is very much a state of mind, money isn't really a factor once your basic needs are met. Struggling artist types are some of the happiest people I know

worriedatthistime · 14/07/2022 16:43

Not many other countries even offer social housing etc and do you really think no poor people live in europe or the us , the former can't even get sick without it costing them .
My brother and girlfriend had to move back home to my parents in late 30's to save a house deposit and move out of london as they decided their own home was now a priority , they have lower end paid jobs
You need to look at anything you can do to improve your situation and if you truly think you would be better elsewhere in another country, have you considered moving ?

Asperia · 14/07/2022 16:44

Maybe you should wait to have a kid until you can be a bit more positive about life. Or just don't have them.