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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To not want to raise a child into this vicious, dog-eat-dog, cut-throat country?

330 replies

summergal250 · 08/07/2022 23:44

Really I'm pretty close to giving up on the idea of one day having kids.

Why?

Unless you're rich, everything in the country is just an endless, ceaseless, dog-eat-dog fight over scraps. Day after day, month after month, year after year. I don't want my child to have to deal with this crap.

Examples:
. I'm currently having issues with the landlord over various repairs he's dragging his feet on. His attitude is, if you don't like it move. I pay £700 for this crappy shoebox. I could just move - again - or threaten court action, which as empty as any money I'd get from that would be wiped out by legal fees.

. This is like my 10th rental in 12 years. EVERY single one them had at least one serious issue with it - mice, damp, noise issues, no washing machine, landlords entering property etc. Out all of them only one landlord was actually a decent person - all the rest having been lying, cheating, two-faced money-grubbers. Of course, not a problem if mummy and daddy can give you a deposit. In my 30s yet feel as I'm trapped in a permanent state of being 21.

. I work full time and do freelance in my spare time. I constantly look for new, better paying roles and I have been saving for a deposit for years and as house prices just rise and rise it feels I'm getting nowhere. I'm almost at the point of saying, why bother? How is it fair to raise a kid in some crummy tiny flat? The housing issue has been a problem for 20 years and NOTHING has been done - every year it just gets worse and worse. Meanwhile smug boomers who bought their semi for £80K in 1979 bang on about avocados.

. I got conned into doing a degree which every adult in my teens said would be a ticket to a great future. Instead, all it represents is a massive pile of debt and a waste of three years. Yet, even a receptionist job now insists on a degree, so you have to do it, even though only a degree from Oxbridge or a top redbrick is worth anything these days.

. Jobs - graduated into the recession. I've had jobs where I've been bullied, others with psycho bosses, others with vicious backstabbing 'colleagues'. Constantly the implicit threat of - if you don't like it we'll fire you. Felt I was finally getting somewhere in my old job and then was made redundant during covid. Cue several months of soul-destroying unemployment. The job I have now is ok but less well paid then my old one - so, more struggle, more jostling for favour, wasting more of my free time looking for a better paid jobs, more endless rounds of interviews. I feel like I've been going up the down escalator the entire time. Every year it seems the jobs market gets fiercer, more competitive, more brutal and cut-throat.

. The low pay means I spend large chunks of my free time freelancing. I enjoy it but it can be exhausting. Atm I'm embroiled in a dispute with a client who is refusing to pay for some completed work (with £700) - turns out he's con man with a dodgy past. I'm having to take him to a small claims court - yet more of my time and energy wasted.

. Similar to an occasion a few months back where a hotel Cornwall was nothing like the pics when I got there - it was in a disgusting state. I cancelled and went elsewhere, and then was embroiled in a 3 month battle to get my money back, with the owner only relenting when I got the local council involved.

Spotting a pattern?

If you're not rich in this country everything's just a pointless, exhausting fight to keep your head above water. Every economic interaction is just a vicious bare-knuckle fight, with people out to shaft you for what they can. Honestly, if it wasn't for my family and friends I really would have just given up on the human race.

I won't go into the this country's general lack of manners, the yobbish behaviour of many people here, the rows of homeless tents in out high streets, the crappy education system, the utterly broken and corrupt political system, and the general utter madness society seems to fall further into with every passing year. The quality of life here just deteriorates every year.

So, basically, I don't want to inflict this on a child. My life is worse than my parents - fact. I'm doubt I'll ever reach their level. If you're not rich, children have no future in this country - just an endless treadmill of debt and exploitation. And every trend I've discussed above is getting worse - I just dread to think how things will be when they grew up.

And before people start saying, 'maybe it's you' - believe you me, I've fought coming to these conclusions tooth and nail. Grew up in a firm Old Labour home - solidarity and all that. I used to be the classic caring, sharing, naive people-pleaser - after years of being taken advantage of and shafted I've bit by bit given up. Now all I care about is myself, my family and my immediate friends.

OP posts:
CPL593H · 14/07/2022 18:26

SpaceGoatFarm · 14/07/2022 18:14

Unless they have reliable evidence then they are useless as a source. Nobody seems able to provide it. A lecturer in scotland asked for evidence from private collections and got nowhere. Look up the Mandela effect

OK, so these scrappy little bits of paper that people stuck in their front windows to deter the unwanted were really going to be preserved as important, let alone as an historical artefact? There are the odd photos of them perhaps, but no one who wished to record them was going to be able to take a phone out and get a picture. The people who they were aimed at are very unlikely indeed to have gone round in daylight, with a camera, to do so. For obvious reasons.

i would love to know your credentials as an historian.

TedMullins · 14/07/2022 18:27

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 17:50

So what are you going to do then?

Vote Labour for a start.

JanisMoplin · 14/07/2022 18:28

TedMullins · 14/07/2022 18:27

Vote Labour for a start.

This I absolutely agree with. And always have.

jetadore · 14/07/2022 18:30

People will tell you you’re wrong (this is aibu after all) but your OP is spot on. Modern life is a massive con. Add to your list an economy built on fucking the environment and the sorry state of pensions.

Lacey247 · 14/07/2022 18:30

I’m sure you have a life many people in countries less fortunate than ours would kill for. Do you have food in your belly? A roof over your head? Woe is you.

SpeckofDustUponMySoul · 14/07/2022 18:31

I'm poor by UK standards; I'm disabled and claim benefits, and have 2 small children on my own.
I live in what others might consider a crappy flat (ground floor and adapted to accommodate my physical disabilities.
I'm not happy all the time, and life can be hard, but... fucking hell, OP...
The world doesn't owe you a living. Nor is life as gloomy and shit and depressing as you make it sound if you're not "rich".
I really wouldn't have a child with the world view you that you have, no.

SpeckofDustUponMySoul · 14/07/2022 18:34

And, OP? The pattern is you and your attitude.

Pumperthepumper · 14/07/2022 18:34

Lacey247 · 14/07/2022 18:30

I’m sure you have a life many people in countries less fortunate than ours would kill for. Do you have food in your belly? A roof over your head? Woe is you.

Most people have bigger aims than the very basic though.

alphons · 14/07/2022 18:41

TedMullins · 14/07/2022 18:24

Of course they do but that’s not what we’re talking about, is it? The fact that worse societies exist and wars are going on doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wish our own society was run better especially because it is actually within our reach. And I’m not saying people shouldn’t work (but I think you know that and are being obtuse). Minimum wage these days often isn’t enough for a secure home though, is it? Many people on benefits DO work, they just need their salaries topping up because the cost of living is too high. THAT is what’s grotesque. A secure home should be achievable on a low wage.

The fact that worse societies exist and wars are going on doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wish our own society was run better

Replying to just this bit, because the rest of my post seems to be lost on you: setting aside that these wars aren’t just “going on” but are often instigated or perpetuated with your taxes and in your name, what this DOES mean is that - as was the point of this thread - the OP might want to consider what she does have rather than what “rich” people have and she doesn’t have. Relative to many millions around the world, (including people in countries where civilians’ secure homes that were worked for are decimated by British troops) she has a lot. Start with that and work forwards, instead of focusing on on what’s lacking. Plenty do, and are grateful for the opportunity to do so.

NMW is paltry. It isn’t enough. Further, I think it’s appalling that two working parents in decent jobs is now the norm for a family to survive in the UK with basic comforts (beyond necessities). This is what the people of this country have voted for, election after election, government after government, ever since WW2. Don’t like it? Make an effort and change it. Or, leave. Frankly, people should be marching in the streets at this current government and the lack of credible alternative.

Being defeatist is pointless. It’s totally unconstructive, it’s destructive. Which is why my first post started with suggesting that no, the OP shouldn’t have DC.

ParsleySageRosemary · 14/07/2022 18:45

Hey op, I totally agree with you and remember that so many on this website are fake. As for which countries are better - just about any in Europe.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 14/07/2022 18:47

Most millionaires seem unfulfilled so I don’t see that as something to aspire to. Once you reach a point beyond being “comfortable” money holds little value and that’s not what I want. I think there’s options and you can find beauty and happiness for 0 money but comparison is the thief of joy and it’s stolen yours. I’ve travelled quite a bit and everywhere has a rich and poor side. The UK isn’t as bad as you describe for most of us because even when it’s tough financially we don’t stew, compare to others and moan it’s unfair. I dropped out of uni after an horrific experience but now I’ve got a degree level job because I proved myself and worked my way up rather than feeling sorry for myself.

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 18:53

TedMullins · 14/07/2022 18:27

Vote Labour for a start.

OK, but nothing, you know, effective, or that will allow you to better look after your family?

It’s not exactly what you could call a very comprehensive plan for change.

TheHouseElf · 14/07/2022 18:53

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ZeusandClio · 14/07/2022 18:53

Fair enough, don't have children then. It's not obligatory. Where would you rather bring up children? Would it be possible to relocate to somewhere you'd be happier?

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 18:55

Pumperthepumper · 14/07/2022 18:34

Most people have bigger aims than the very basic though.

They do, but so few people seem to actually do much about it, and far too many (OP included) just want to blame someone else for everything.

The country will always have people like this, there’s no point even trying to help them.

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 18:57

ParsleySageRosemary · 14/07/2022 18:45

Hey op, I totally agree with you and remember that so many on this website are fake. As for which countries are better - just about any in Europe.

Which ones have you lived and worked in?

All too many people will post something like this while living twenty miles from where they were born, speaking only one language, and knowing nothing about actually holding down a job overseas.

Zwellers · 14/07/2022 18:57

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Pumperthepumper · 14/07/2022 19:00

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 18:55

They do, but so few people seem to actually do much about it, and far too many (OP included) just want to blame someone else for everything.

The country will always have people like this, there’s no point even trying to help them.

Why not? Easy access to education and decent social care is hardly pointless!

TheHouseElf · 14/07/2022 19:00

OP - agree with you. This country is utterly broken.

Think it was Ghandi who said 'be the change you want to see in the world', but its hard to do that with the daily grind of life.

How do we fix this? Wish I knew, but really hope things change and ordinary folk get a chance to live a proper, full, enjoyable life.

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 19:06

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Greenginghamdress · 14/07/2022 19:06

I don't get this attitude at all. It's far from perfect, but I love this country.
I have friends who emigrated from the UK to Barcelona several years ago. The unemployment over there is very high and my friend has gone from job to job due to redundancy and suffered periods of unemployment. He and his wife have never moved out from their little studio flat as they can't afford to. Things like this exist wherever you reside. There's no magic utopia waiting for you.
I'm afraid OP with your negativity you'd find problems everywhere.
I feel for you as it sounds like you've had streams of bad luck.
There are a few practical things you can do. Eg. Secure deposits for work you do in future.
Try and find the positives in your situation.
The hotel was just bad luck.
You sound quite argumentative and I'm not sure this will be helping you come across well.
If you do decide to have children try and work on your mindset first.
As someone who had two negative parents, it sucks.
Good luck to you.

twistyizzy · 14/07/2022 19:07

I agree with you OP. We are extremely fortunate to be a double income family homeowners which does shield us from much of the current chaos HOWEVER this doesn't mean we are ignorant of the conditions for many people in the UK. I hate the divide that is being encouraged between older and younger generations and I do fear for my DD as I just can't see the situation getting any better.
The housing situation is horrendous and right to buy will just exacerbate this. I really think that the UK is broken but I'm also unsure as to how to fix it, I suspect ending free market/capitalist economies is the way forwards but we seem to be a Tory country now which fills me with absolute despair. Ironically it is the Tory party who have assisted us in being the fortunate financial position that we are in but I would gladly see the back of them if it meant a true distribution of wealth/better support for those at the bottom.

ParsleySageRosemary · 14/07/2022 19:07

GCHeretic · 14/07/2022 18:57

Which ones have you lived and worked in?

All too many people will post something like this while living twenty miles from where they were born, speaking only one language, and knowing nothing about actually holding down a job overseas.

Netherlands and Belgium as it happens. We were forced back in part by Brexit, which if it needs a reminder was largely foisted on younger generations by the older. And of course is the reason why no one can just ‘pop off’ to another country any more than they can ‘just’ retrain every few years with soaring fees.

I am also reading your relative wealth into your sneery tone about poor people in this country who cannot even afford to travel into the next town any more. I was born in to an area with many people like that. If you don’t like it perhaps this country should reassess the appalling lack of public transport anywhere outside London and it’s cost relative to wages. I remember the cost of transport tripling over as many years, and the cost for kids going up by thousands of percent on privatisation.

Pumperthepumper · 14/07/2022 19:08

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Thats just heading back to ‘the bare minimum should be enough’. It’s not: we’re failing people.

roarfeckingroarr · 14/07/2022 19:15

hurtyb · 14/07/2022 17:20

Who manages to buy a home these days without any parental help?

I'm in my 30s & don't know anyone who has

I do and I live in London.