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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To not want to raise a child into this vicious, dog-eat-dog, cut-throat country?

330 replies

summergal250 · 08/07/2022 23:44

Really I'm pretty close to giving up on the idea of one day having kids.

Why?

Unless you're rich, everything in the country is just an endless, ceaseless, dog-eat-dog fight over scraps. Day after day, month after month, year after year. I don't want my child to have to deal with this crap.

Examples:
. I'm currently having issues with the landlord over various repairs he's dragging his feet on. His attitude is, if you don't like it move. I pay £700 for this crappy shoebox. I could just move - again - or threaten court action, which as empty as any money I'd get from that would be wiped out by legal fees.

. This is like my 10th rental in 12 years. EVERY single one them had at least one serious issue with it - mice, damp, noise issues, no washing machine, landlords entering property etc. Out all of them only one landlord was actually a decent person - all the rest having been lying, cheating, two-faced money-grubbers. Of course, not a problem if mummy and daddy can give you a deposit. In my 30s yet feel as I'm trapped in a permanent state of being 21.

. I work full time and do freelance in my spare time. I constantly look for new, better paying roles and I have been saving for a deposit for years and as house prices just rise and rise it feels I'm getting nowhere. I'm almost at the point of saying, why bother? How is it fair to raise a kid in some crummy tiny flat? The housing issue has been a problem for 20 years and NOTHING has been done - every year it just gets worse and worse. Meanwhile smug boomers who bought their semi for £80K in 1979 bang on about avocados.

. I got conned into doing a degree which every adult in my teens said would be a ticket to a great future. Instead, all it represents is a massive pile of debt and a waste of three years. Yet, even a receptionist job now insists on a degree, so you have to do it, even though only a degree from Oxbridge or a top redbrick is worth anything these days.

. Jobs - graduated into the recession. I've had jobs where I've been bullied, others with psycho bosses, others with vicious backstabbing 'colleagues'. Constantly the implicit threat of - if you don't like it we'll fire you. Felt I was finally getting somewhere in my old job and then was made redundant during covid. Cue several months of soul-destroying unemployment. The job I have now is ok but less well paid then my old one - so, more struggle, more jostling for favour, wasting more of my free time looking for a better paid jobs, more endless rounds of interviews. I feel like I've been going up the down escalator the entire time. Every year it seems the jobs market gets fiercer, more competitive, more brutal and cut-throat.

. The low pay means I spend large chunks of my free time freelancing. I enjoy it but it can be exhausting. Atm I'm embroiled in a dispute with a client who is refusing to pay for some completed work (with £700) - turns out he's con man with a dodgy past. I'm having to take him to a small claims court - yet more of my time and energy wasted.

. Similar to an occasion a few months back where a hotel Cornwall was nothing like the pics when I got there - it was in a disgusting state. I cancelled and went elsewhere, and then was embroiled in a 3 month battle to get my money back, with the owner only relenting when I got the local council involved.

Spotting a pattern?

If you're not rich in this country everything's just a pointless, exhausting fight to keep your head above water. Every economic interaction is just a vicious bare-knuckle fight, with people out to shaft you for what they can. Honestly, if it wasn't for my family and friends I really would have just given up on the human race.

I won't go into the this country's general lack of manners, the yobbish behaviour of many people here, the rows of homeless tents in out high streets, the crappy education system, the utterly broken and corrupt political system, and the general utter madness society seems to fall further into with every passing year. The quality of life here just deteriorates every year.

So, basically, I don't want to inflict this on a child. My life is worse than my parents - fact. I'm doubt I'll ever reach their level. If you're not rich, children have no future in this country - just an endless treadmill of debt and exploitation. And every trend I've discussed above is getting worse - I just dread to think how things will be when they grew up.

And before people start saying, 'maybe it's you' - believe you me, I've fought coming to these conclusions tooth and nail. Grew up in a firm Old Labour home - solidarity and all that. I used to be the classic caring, sharing, naive people-pleaser - after years of being taken advantage of and shafted I've bit by bit given up. Now all I care about is myself, my family and my immediate friends.

OP posts:
hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:51

@Louise0701 I don't understand why because it's normal for you it doesn't count as help though? It's very normal to have a gifted deposit for some including myself but it's still help. Plenty of 20 yrs old do have to pay rent either at home or elsewhere.

Giantostrich · 17/07/2022 11:52

I agree that if, at the age of 18, you have anything from your parents or other family that helps you move on with your life - so sums of money you received when a child, rent free accommodation, an allowance, phone paid for, lifts into work, etc, that counts as being helped. Not having to pay rent is absolutely MASSIVE. Speaking as someone who couldn't have stayed at home with parents as there were no jobs there, and spent many years renting rooms in shitty houses.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 11:55

@hurtyb lol ok

frazzledmess · 17/07/2022 12:00

@Giantostrich absolutely agree & I think it's bizarre to discount that help because it's outside your very own narrow experiences!

BetterFuture1985 · 17/07/2022 12:15

GrowlingManchego · 17/07/2022 08:05

That’s a key question isn’t it? And the experience of people now in their 20s is not the same as when people like @Louise0701 were establishing themselves. Most of the decade after the millennium (when people approaching 40 now were starting their careers) was relatively prosperous with a lot more opportunities than today, and cheaper housing and bills relative to wages.

This is quite true, when I started my career in 2003 I didn't think it would take until 32 to buy a house. Unfortunately I tried to live somewhere where houses were much more out of reach than elsewhere and burned a lot on rent but I had much more chance than people in their 20s and early 30s have now.

Another problem with what @Louise0701 is arguing is that because she's an exception to the rule everything is fine. Whereas my view is that if only a minority of people can afford to buy a house and earn a decent income, something is wrong and a small handful of people bucking the trend doesn't change that because there is still a widespread lack of opportunity in this country.

GCHeretic · 17/07/2022 12:25

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:27

I see a society where people generally help each other out, and where the state takes every Penny we earn from January into June to pay for services that benefit everyone.

Lol, I'm pretty sure that's the point of the OP. She's not earning 6 figs, if she was she wouldn't feel like she did.

No, so instead the tax and benefits system ensures that she pays less in, but still has the same safety net.

It’s just not tenable to paint the UK as some sort of “everyone for themselves” dystopia.

rainingsnoring · 17/07/2022 12:28

Totally agree with @hurtyb , @Giantostrich and @frazzledmess -of course living at home rent free as a working adult it help. Receiving free childcare which save bills of a couple of thousand a month is also a massive help which also doesn't seem to be counted in the same way as, say a £25K deposit but could easily add up to much more in financial savings.
I'm afraid that @Louise0701 's suggestion that opportunities are available based on her personal, particularly fortunate experience, is nonsensical. Frankly, bragging about it when the OP and others are clearly struggling isn't very kind.
I agree with the OP that it is jolly tough to get ahead for young (younger) people nowadays unless you have help from family. It's much harder than it was for people in their 60s, 70s, 80s. A lot of it is due to the cost of housing. Many people's incomes have fallen in real terms year on year since the financial crisis which has significantly exacerbated things.

Pumperthepumper · 17/07/2022 12:30

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 09:50

@hurtyb no, we both lived with our parents until we bought our first home. We didn’t have a million in equity but it 100s of 1000s.

So you did get parental help? Also your husband had access to a government-funded apprenticeship?

Pumperthepumper · 17/07/2022 12:32

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 10:36

@hurtyb and I answered; I don’t class it as help because, to me, it’s normal. I wouldn’t expect any of my children to either move out or pay me rent at 20. If they want to move out or need to do so for work or university, that’s obviously fine, but I certainly wouldn’t expect them to fund living at home or go to rent elsewhere at such a young age.

Oh sorry, you’ve already answered that. It’s still very obviously parental help though because otherwise you’d have financial outgoings that your parents waived.

56dfh8653 · 17/07/2022 12:38

@Pumperthepumper and thats why that you dont classify living rent free as help but in London that would save you at least a grand a month which is quite a lot. Parents who are less well off don't have a choice but to charge rent e.g. if they are paying rent themselves or have a hefty mortgage, what about single parents who lose the child maintenance once kids turn 18. My parents charged me rent, they were recent immigrants and had a massive mortgage. It would have been ridiculous for them not to once I had a job so I paid them 500quid a month.

Giantostrich · 17/07/2022 12:47

Some teenagers consider it "normal" for their parents to give them a car and limitless driving lessons, plus at least the deposit on a first home. So not parental help then.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 12:53

@Pumperthepumper yes, he went to college like a huge proportion of the population. You can try and minimise our achievements all you like; I’m very proud of what we have and how much hard work went in to getting us here.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 12:54

@Pumperthepumper it is not the obligation of the family children to pay towards a mortgage / rent the parents chose to take. I’m baffled as to why you think it is?

Pumperthepumper · 17/07/2022 12:59

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 12:54

@Pumperthepumper it is not the obligation of the family children to pay towards a mortgage / rent the parents chose to take. I’m baffled as to why you think it is?

Because logically it is: if you had paid rent elsewhere or your parents had been forced to ask you to contribute, you’d be years behind financially. That’s very basic logic.

Pumperthepumper · 17/07/2022 13:00

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 12:53

@Pumperthepumper yes, he went to college like a huge proportion of the population. You can try and minimise our achievements all you like; I’m very proud of what we have and how much hard work went in to getting us here.

You should be proud! But you should also appreciate it came with certain legs-up, like parents who didn’t ask for rent AND government-funded courses that have been massively cut back.

Giantostrich · 17/07/2022 13:04

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 12:54

@Pumperthepumper it is not the obligation of the family children to pay towards a mortgage / rent the parents chose to take. I’m baffled as to why you think it is?

You seem to have decided that it's the duty of parents (even badly off parents) to offer their adult (even employed) children free accommodation and food. I'm baffled as to why you've come to that conclusion. Could it possibly be because that's what your parents did for you and you'd prefer to think of it as something that was normal / due to you, rather than a generous leg-up?

AliceAbsolum · 17/07/2022 14:00

Regardless of your situation, if you stay in this victim mentality, you will suffer.

Hawkins001 · 23/07/2022 22:37

all the best

Louise0701 · 23/07/2022 22:42

@Giantostrich a generous leg up to allow your 19 year old daughter to remain living in the home she has lived in since she was born? I don’t think so, no. That was my situation.
I won’t be charging my children to live in their home. I find it baffling that anyone would do so. If parents can’t afford their mortgage or rent, that’s a problem for them to sort, not their children.

Shandaz · 23/07/2022 22:47

I don't get your point. It's a leg up compared with those who don't get this. That's obvious.

Louise0701 · 23/07/2022 22:49

@Shandaz I don’t know a single person who, as a teen, had to pay rent to live at home. I don’t think it’s as common as people presume. Phone bills, gem memberships etc are obviously paid but rent / mortgage; no.

Louise0701 · 23/07/2022 22:54

Also to point out that, as pps have mentioned my DH did an apprenticeship; he was earning £90 a week doing so. £30 a week of that went on fuel. It was hard work and commitment to succeeding that got us where we are.

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 22:56

But surely the world is bigger than your circle? Why do you think it's not common, because you don't know anyone who does?

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 22:57

It was hard work and commitment to succeeding that got us where we are.

No doubt but would have been able to take the apprentice role if he needed to pay rent?

VeniVidiWeeWee · 23/07/2022 22:59

Anyone heard of the battle Bamber Bridge.

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