To not want to work.

[kahase72]

Hi. I’m a housewife currently. I have 3 DC, youngest 15. I’ve been out of work for about 18 years to take care of my DC. My DH wants me to go back to work now theyre more independent but I don’t want to. We don’t really NEED money, but it would be nice to have it. AIBU to not go back?

IMO using kids as a reason not to work stops working when the youngest goes to school full time. In your case 11 years ago...

IF I ever return to paid work in some capacity it will be on my own terms, thankyou very much. I have a Masters degree. Why the hell should I have to take any old MW job just to 'get a job' for the sake of it.

I think you would be in for a big shock. After a 10+ year absence in most professions your skills will be massively out of date. As for having a Masters, so do thousands of other people whose skills are current.

Really? My children needed me more as teenagers than they ever did when they were younger. Though I worked, I reduced my hours for a few years when they were teens.

Almost all of the Scandinavian countries score higher/the highest in the world on happiness, and while the suicide rates are on average higher than here the difference can be at least partially explained by the longer, darker winters. The incidence of suicide seems to be correlated with low levels of daylight during the winter and prevalence of SAD.

Yes, the winters up there are really, really tough, even for populations so high on the happiness indicex.

I worked on secondment in Finland, several hundred km north of Helsinki, for a couple of years and found it really, really difficult in the winter. A lot of the time it seemed as though the brightest it got was sort of dim and dusky in the middle of the day, compounded by almost constant freezing fog and extreme cold.

I was warned about the psychological pressures it brings and even offered counselling!

Yes for all the big bowls of food and hosting friends. Realistically though, a teenager (presuming they’re NT) does not require full time care the way a toddler or small child does. They do not need a parent available to them/supervising them at all times. Small kids do.

Also the issue with it being ‘on your terms’ is that your terms involve someone else financially supporting you full time. So if that person doesn’t want to support you anymore your terms obviously need to change whether you have a masters degree or not.

I don’t work currently haven’t for about 4 years out youngest is 12 y7 my DH is happy to support me however the reason I don’t work is I have severe MH problems I don’t leave the house for weeks at a time and have a carer that comes twice a week to support me in my mental health
I do want to go back I feel redundant and I don’t think sitting at home alone day after day is doing my mental health any good I have just put my name down to do some volunteering in the local hospice shop a few afternoons a week I’m dreading it but hopefully it will give me confidence and skills to get back into at least PT work

"Also the issue with it being ‘on your terms’ is that your terms involve someone else financially supporting you full time. So if that person doesn’t want to support you anymore your terms obviously need to change whether you have a masters degree or not."

But if your husband wasn't happy to be "financially supporting you full time" (whatever that means in a normal family), then obviously, you wouldn't be a SAHM (long term) would you?

I think it's fine to have a conversation as the children get older and if a DH feels that some extra money coming in would be useful and / or take the pressure off him. That's fine. But it needs to be a realistic discussion. If he's been happy for her to SAH for the early years (as and when it suited him), he can't just click his fingers and expect her to take on any old job at his discretion. Would he be prepared to do that in his 40s / 50s? I doubt it. She had supported his career so now he needs to support her back into work, if that's what they need to do. It might well not happen overnight.

Anyway, as I think I said the other day, most longer-term SAHMs are not looking to go back to what they did pre-kids. I don't know anyone who remotely thinks that would be feasible after 10,15,20 years - let alone anyone who would even want to! That was like a different life. Usually, they have found new interests over the SAH years - they may have retrained in something else or they start up their own business venture of some description. Off the top of my head, I have friends who became - nutritional therapist; yoga teacher; jewellery designer; Pilates teacher; personal trainer; psychotherapist, property developer, teacher - all kinds of things. Nobody had any desire to go back into the city or corporate life they left behind, even if that were possible. The DH's are realistic, as are the wives, about the impact of a stint out of the workforce. Of course they are - they are not dense.

I have three SAHM friends with children in secondary school now. The three of them are lovely but very unreasonable. They keep saying the same mantras: "my children need me more than ever. I haven't found a job that is interesting or match my qualifications/ stimulating. My husband makes lots of money and my salary would be insignificant".

I have master's degree and I don't work to keep me stimulated. Maybe some projects are more interesting than others but I put up with boring reports, stress, meeting deadlines and deal with the office politics, all that comes with a job that pays well.
I wonder if women not working for two decades know that to get paid well like their husbands it's not stimulating and exciting. Or maybe they know, but they don't mind as that's what a man is suppose to do.

In Spain we have very affordable childcare for people in good wage, and is free if you are on a low wage. Women work, feel proud of their own independence. Women value equality very highly, they use their education and skills.

I think that the longer you’re out of work, the harder it is to get back in.

But, spanishmumireland, why are you even bothered about these three friends? You made your choices in life, they have made theirs. If they say their salaries would be insignificant these days, then take their word for it. Why are their finances your concern? They're not your wife! Why do you care? Why would you think they need to be like you?

@spanishmumireland

I have three SAHM friends with children in secondary school now. The three of them are lovely but very unreasonable. They keep saying the same mantras: "my children need me more than ever. I haven't found a job that is interesting or match my qualifications/ stimulating. My husband makes lots of money and my salary would be insignificant".

Yep. I know similar women. They would rather continue to be a drain than a contributor, even though there's no reason not to work now.

One of them is prone to turning on the waterworks whenever she feels a bit of pressure towards employment. Another of our friends has just started a new job which is a nice step up for her - she's always worked other than maternity leaves - so there's been lots of work chat in our social circle recently when we're all together. Non-working friend's DH picks up on the work chat and is clearly keen on her working now their youngest is a teen, but she's not having any of it.

Same reason you were bothered enough to start talking about your friend in Sweden who felt the state was keeping her from her baby…?

People that don't work when they could work are effectively dodging tax.

I do like my friends, that's why we are friends. I just think they are very unreasonable and that below the surface there are always risks.

I don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want to be identified and identify them.
One of them went travelling to Asia with DH (with a super job) and kids, it was supposed to be a stint of 5 years, her husband couldn't put up with the pressure of the job after 2 years and they came back to Ireland. He did say then he couldn't possibly work all his life as hard as he was and asked her to return to work (she had a well paid job before becoming a SAHM), so he could think about take a step down. This was a few years ago and she is still thinking about it.

Another otheher DH suffered from some rare auto immune disease when the kids were small, it was very severe and he was barely moving. After a year it all cleared out without an explanation but they don't know whether it could return. She is not bothered at all by this.
So that is two out of three women with DH in a vulnerable position and they don't want to see it.

spanishmumireland - hmm, well I'm the case of the DH with the autoimmune condition, that does sound potentially unreasonable.

Your other friend, I'm not so sure. Ultimately, it was his career decision to go for the 'super job' in Asia. He's lucky she was prepared to uproot herself and the kids to go with him - many wives wouldn't! It's not easy uprooting kids and orientating them in a new country and new schools where you know nobody. It's a shame the job didn't work out for him, but the move didn't only impact him. It affected the whole family.

Perhaps the man is a workaholic type who likes to complain about his lot while, in reality, making it very difficult for their wife to work, even if she wanted to. It's a type of narcissism.

Believe me, there are PLENTY of men like that!!!

Ultimately, you never know what's going in families other than your own. Maybe they look at you and your husband and speculate you are unfair to him in some way? Who knows?

I know a lot of women who were / are SAH - probably hundreds over the years. I can only think of one case where the DH is now telling his wife to get a job. Frankly, my experience of this man is that he is an obnoxious, entitled bully who has eroded her confidence over the years. He doesn't even want her to get a job, he just likes to guilt-trip her. She tells me this and I am worried about her.

There are a lot of men who are workaholics and, to be perfectly honest, it takes s certain kind of woman to be married to an extremely hyper, driven type. I should know! If you have a husband like this, you can't change them. So you either go with it - or not, as the case may be. Like anything else, there are pros and cons and it's horses for courses, as are all marriages. Never judge until you've walked in someone else's shoes.

Believe me, there are PLENTY of men like that!!!

Why would we believe you? Are you some expert on men and no one else is?

@SofiaSoFar She's an expert on Sweden as well to be fair.

Ffs. The whole thread is full of women who know maybe three SAHMs at most, yet are of the opinion they have some kind of expert insight to enable them to proclaim all kinds of shite about SAHMs in general such as -

The poor beleaguered husbands!
(yet at the same time they have definitely opted out if parenting)
Without doubt, their children must never see them
Have they never heard of the MN magic numbers - 50/50! What the hell are they playing at?
They are bound to have an office affair! (never mind if they don't even work in an office, this is what THOSE men with SAHWs do. Definitely. They must do)
How resentful they all must be!
The terrible terrible wives doing Pilates 24/7
Especially in SCHOOL HOURS!!!!!
With... wait for it..,, TEENAGERS!!!
Bloody tax dodgers
They MUST be financially vulnerable (just say it enough times, it must be true)
Definitely they can't possibly have considered their financial future and need this explained by randoms on MN
Nor have they ever considered structural inequality or social conditioning
Nooooo!
This is because they are airheads you see
Not like the MN very clever self-proclaimed feminists who actually really KNOW that ALL women really want to be exactly same as them (and those that don't just don't understand properly)
What poor role models they are to their children
They are doing nothing ... oh, but also they are doing too much for their kids
They can't have anything to talk about - OMG! How can they with NO JOB??? It's impossible.
They are doomed!
BLAH BLAH BLAH...

This is the point of the stupid made-up thread and it's the same on every thread about SAHMs - of which there are several a week.

FFS, despite their earnest protestations to the contrary, people on AIBU more aggro about SAHMs than issues such as the war in Ukraine - if the frequency and length of SAHM threads are anything to go by.

I hope the OP got what she needs to feel better about her life, but I somehow doubt it.

There will be another fascinating "SAHM scenario" before this one is out. Same old, same old.

I make one comment about a friend's Swedish experience a few years back and that makes me the 'expert?' Whatever. What's the English expression about the black pot and the kettle?

I learned about ten years ago that the averaged MN-er really looks down on and despises SAHMs

in real life I only know one such person, she ranted at me once asking what on earth I did with all that stupid amount of free time. She is now 50, has a rich partner and …. Tadaaaa is taking early retirement

so in her case it was jealousy more than anything

so best to ignore the sahm haters

I do really think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I agree with some of your reflections SAHamonNM: "It takes s certain kind of woman to be married to an extremely hyper, driven type". It wouldn't be me, but we are not all the same.

This debate was interesting to me, in the sense that I am wondering how much of the way we thinkncomes from our own background. 🤔
I grew up in the 1980's in Spain. It was the start of a democracy, and freedom for women. During Franco's dictatorship women were not allowed to be financially independent, and would be seing as a carer/ wife. Divorce was obviously not in the cards. I think the pride of being financially independent comes from that point in time.

Yes I can understand that spanishmumireland. Everyone is a product of their upbringing to some extent and it's unavoidable. But all anyone can do is own that reality for what it is but still be honest about what you really want out of life. For instance, I am also from a Southern European country where things were / are more traditional. I see it for what it is, but I'm not going to define my life by conforming to that nor reacting against it. You only get one life and you can't constantly be second guessing everything. With a different husband and / or with less children, I may well have been working. Just as if you had more children / children with additional needs or perhaps had ended up as an expat moving between countries where you couldn't work or with a very high-earning man and all that tends to come with that, you might have been a SAHM. Anyone could be. I'm all for women working and doing whatever they want. Of course I am. I can completely understand why women's jobs are important to them in defining their financial independence. 100% get that. I can also see why, to those women, the concept of being a SAHM, would be something they couldnt envisage for themselves. That is fine. But most of what is said about SAHMs on here is just utter nonsense, to be honest. It's almost as if people feel threatened by the very existence of SAHMs which is ridiculous because everyone just reacts to circumstances. Would the anti-SAHM posters castigate women who work part time? Or women who do work but earn only a small percentage of what their DH earns so, in reality, they are still 'funded by the DH?' Having a job is definitely one major way to financial independence and I would never knock that. But it's not the only way and, in some circumstances, it could be financially counterproductive.

A lot of your posts/rants sound really angry @SAHMonMN

It's almost as if people feel threatened by the very existence of SAHMs which is ridiculous because everyone just reacts to circumstances.

My perception is that it is the other way around!

...or perhaps had ended up as an expat moving between countries where you couldn't work or with a very high-earning man and all that tends to come with that, you might have been a SAHM.

But I'd never be a trailing spouse and especially where I could not work and although my OH is high earning I have always made sure to make employment and career decisions that suit me - or at least do not jeopardise me.

The real question here is why it is mainly women who are expected to do these things and not men.

I recognise that structural sexism is such that men's wages tend to be higher but there are other ways of addressing that through compromise.