To not want to work.

[kahase72]

Hi. I’m a housewife currently. I have 3 DC, youngest 15. I’ve been out of work for about 18 years to take care of my DC. My DH wants me to go back to work now theyre more independent but I don’t want to. We don’t really NEED money, but it would be nice to have it. AIBU to not go back?

@Cyclebabble

Why have you tolerated it so long? I’m sure he’s doing a full time job cooking big bowls of food and checking the local Facebook groups but this is real life - you don’t want to financially support him full time till you die. And that’s okay.

@Kanaloa In honesty I do not know. I love him, but slowly respect has moved away. There are good times, but it has gone on too long and I am not sure now I could face the alternative of being alone, but I am still thinking.

@Cyclebabble that’s really sad. Don’t cook for him, he is taking the complete piss.

Are you the same age? Can you drop to part-time hours now? How would that go down with him?

It’s that fear of being alone then isn’t it? I mean for me alone is preferable to unhappy though. Can you communicate to him that you’re not happy? He’s taking the piss out of you majorly. You’re basically paying for him to live out his whole life sitting on his arse doing whatever he likes. It’s so unfair.

It's interesting to see that when it's the man who wants to stay at home as the recent post from Cyclebabble, everyone sees it's complete unfair on her. I am really wondering what the SAHM crowd feels when they read that.
Yes, it's unfair. One person is taken the whole financial burden while the other justifies being at home as division of labor, making dinners, admin, emotional support to children, and joining committees and having nice hobbies.
Cyclebabble, I would fee the resentment too. I would try to consider different options including giving him an ultimatum and following up, change sometimes is good.

It's interesting to see that when it's the man who wants to stay at home as the recent post from Cyclebabble, everyone sees it's complete unfair on her. I am really wondering what the SAHM crowd feels when they read that

I've noticed when the man stays at home he actually doesn't take on all housework and childcare. Invariably he still expects his working wife to cook and clean etc. She won't be coming home to a spotless house, laundry done, dinner cooked and kids bathed and in PJ's. She'll get home from work and take over the reins and have a shit ton of household chores to do that he's ignored all day

And I've noticed loads of threads on MN over the years, insisting that the SAHP's role is about childcare and that the WOHP should absolutely do half or at least nearly half of the housework.

Double standards abound, let's not pretend otherwise. A man who doesn't work outside the home is frequently described on MN as a cockodger, whereas a woman who doesn't work outside the home is generally given the credit for "facilitating" their partner's career and enabling them to achieve whatever they have achieved professionally.

In reality, the SAHDs that I know do pretty much exactly the same as the SAHMs, but one is undoubtedly perceived as more "worthy" than the other. It's interesting how deeply ingrained our attitudes towards the old gender stereotypes actually are.

@Anothernamechangeplease

You forgot ‘of course you should have a cleaner’ and the inevitably dull ‘would you expect a childminder to run errands and clean?? Your job is the kids.’ Personally I see the pp’s issue. My resentment at paying for someone to loll about watching Netflix and reading novels (oops, sorry, attending ‘school events’ and doing ‘life admin’) would kill my respect for the person.

And I've noticed loads of threads on MN over the years, insisting that the SAHP's role is about childcare and that the WOHP should absolutely do half or at least nearly half of the housework

Depends. If you have tiny babies and toddlers, then the wohm parent will need to pitch in. If you're a sahp with school age dc, you should be doing it all.

Why are people so bothered about imaginary SAHMs though?

Unless you actually know a man in real life who is complaining, why the need for all the wrangling and generalisations about SAHMs? What do you need to believe and why?

Anyone could make generalisations about anyone or anything. I mean, I could know two working parents with a nanny who barely see their kids. But obviously, that's just them and hardly a reflection on all families with two working parents.

What actually drives all the angst and need to stereotype? It's so odd to read.

Why do SAHM threads always take off and go to 1000 posts?

@Kanaloa. Thanks. There might come a time where I could reduce hours, but I now have two kids at Uni. One is doing a medical degree and I want to do everything I can to support both my DCs. If I stop working or reduce hours I will not be able to do this. I have tried telling him how I feel. The response is usually to add a series of blocks- the right work has not come up yet, he is too old and no-one will take him on or alternatively we do not really need the money. It is true my job pays well, but sometimes it feels like everything is on me. On occasion he does see this and he gets upset and says he knows things need to change. However nothing then does.

Because it does nothing to support and drive equality. Feminism is not about choice eg choosing to stay at home and be a house wife, whilst a man works; it’s about men and women having equal rights and opportunities . The stay at home for decades model denigrates all the progress we have made with its 1950s keep sweet vibe. It’s damaging to women in the workplace too that women are still presumed primary care givers and therefore are given less opportunities, less pay. We need better balance between genders in terms of the roles we have if we want to avoid the perpetuation of stereotypes forever.

That’s so hard. What would he say if you also felt like just staying at home to watch telly and chill out? Your job may be high paying but is he really happy to do absolutely nothing but relax while his wife pays for him for his whole life? It sounds miserable. I have sympathy but I’m afraid no real advice - this situation definitely wouldn’t work for me and this is part of the reason why. I think both partners should be helping with everything (financial and home based) when it’s possible, small children and childcare issues aside. I had to stay at home for a short time when mine were tiny because we simply couldn’t afford childcare at that time but as soon as I could I was back working.

It’s all too easy to get into the pattern of ‘oh they can pay for everything, I want to stay at home. Yes the kids are at school now but they may still need me for all those school events. The kids are in secondary now but of course I’m still cooking big bowls of food and hosting their friends. Oh the kids are at uni… but I haven’t worked in 18 years, who will hire me? Never mind, better just stay at home.’

The thing is incywincyspider, you can't legislate for the personal sphere. It will never work. People will always put their own children and family-needs first. If all feminism is about is dictating what couples 'should' want, it's dead in the water. You can't do anything about it.

What couples wanted in Sweden changed though when they introduced use it or lose it paternity leave and afordable childcare. It can be influenced by public policies.

Sure, attitudes can be influenced by public policy. I do think that in the quite near future, the 9-5 model will be much less prevalent and people will work more flexibly and also from home much more. But aside from this, you can offer all the free childcare you like. If families don't want to use it, they won't. I wouldn't have used it if it were free and in my doorstep. Maybe a few hours here and there, but not 5 days a week. I'm sure I'm far from being the only one. If that's how people feel, that's how they feel.

Flexibility is not in the near future, it is happening right now. The 9 to 5 is pretty much gone since the start of the pandemic. Everyone I know in my industry is in flexible hours and WFH at least 3 days a week if not more.
People realised that what is important is work life balance. The pandemic has provided the biggest change since the industrial revolution, with the normalisation of remote working. WFH has brought a higher degree of equality between men and women.
You see plenty of dads at the school gate and enjoying school events. There is this massive change in attitudes were balance (time) and not more money is what they are after: a lot of them don't won't to be the donkey, the family provider until retirement. Why would they.

There's only one fundamental question you have to ask yourself. Why is going to work such a no go for you? An element no doubt will be confidence but I'm sure you lead by example for your kids to follow a good example.

So, is it then you simply don't want to? You don't want to have the responsibility of going to work? Do you enjoy your coffee mornings or doing things at your own pace?

Well, we would all enjoy our own little bubble but sadly that's not realistic. My wife and I agree completely on this. It's not fair that one of us should go to work and the other gets the more enjoyable comfy life of doing what they want (by being supported by the other). We would feel completely disrespected if the other chose to be supported by the other. Both of you should be at the same level in everything.

A lot of these responses are coming from a place of privilege. Lots of women, especially if they have been out of the workplace for a long time aren't going to get incredibly interesting, stimulating, flexible jobs. They're going to get poorly paid, boring, monotonous jobs where their skills aren't such that they hold much leverage in terms of demanding flexible working.

Don't disagree with your comments Comedy.

I had a nervous breakdown 8 months ago, I need a change in career which is difficult after 21 years in this industry and being the main breadwinner and taking a substantial paycut. As a husband and father, i can't bear to do that to my family. My wife tells me, that whatever i choose, she will support me. From stacking shelves or re-training.

The OP's position affects the household and as such the next direction has to be an honest and transparent discussion with her husband about what the possibilities are.

Flexibility is not in the near future, it is happening right now.

So are you happy for your doctors to be 'flexible'?

Your kids' teachers?

The shop assistants at Tesco's?

The train driver?

And so on.

I don't doubt that jobs for the 'laptop class' have become more flexible, but this is only true for a minority of jobs. And as a PP said, if you've been out of the workforce for 2 decades, it's unlikely you'll walk into a nice 'flexible' job straight away, if ever.

What couples wanted in Sweden changed though when they introduced use it or lose it paternity leave and afordable childcare. It can be influenced by public policies.

But countries with very high levels of gender equality, such as Sweden and Norway, showed differences in personality between the sexes that were around twice as large as countries with substantially lower levels of gender equality, such as China and Malaysia. The more able to make choices, the more different those choices became between the sexes.

Both of you should be at the same level in everything.

Well that's your opinion and works for you. Different families do things differently and don't always resent each other for it. Your opinion on what the family "should" be doing us irrelevant.

9-5 is pretty much gone

Surely this depends on your job.

Customer service roles, care workers, receptionists, dental assistants, nurses, restaurant staff, teachers and teaching assistants, and a whole load of other perfectly normal jobs, don't really get much in the way of "flexibility".