Talk me down - is this country really so bad?

[BluePassportsAreBollocks]

I’m a long time MN user, NC for this.

Anyway, I’m really down about what our country has become. I’m Scottish but live in England, so much of what I’m saying relates to England but Scotland is just as bad if not worse whenever I go back (before anyone comes along and tells me that it’s all rainbows and unicorns elsewhere!).

The quality of our public services is pitiful. You can’t get a doctors appt, mental health support non existent, hospital backlogs, social care on its knees, schools underperforming, staff in every public sector unhappy and considering going on strike, huge wealth inequalities, huge health inequalities, outrageous profiteering by private companies exploiting the rise in inflation for their own gain (energy, fuel, food, travel), companies cutting their customer service to a shoestring level where it takes 45 mins for someone to pick the phone up only to tell you to use the online contact form, customer service in general appalling and delivered by people who just don’t care, continued and endless political divisions forced upon us and tearing people apart (divide and rule… brexit, boris, scexit, covid), no reply for days and weeks for administrative services like passports, overcrowded public transport, completely unattainable house prices, exorbitant cost of childcare, everything about parenting is a completion, I could go on and on.

I am genuinely thinking of looking for work abroad. But before I do, can someone please tell me…

1. Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.

2. If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??

No, I'm not going to pile on and moan about the country. Just one big dirge and moan fest about how miserable you all are. Life is what you make it. I'm sure really, quite a lot of you have enjoyment and pleasure and comfort in day to day life, but just watch too much news and like to whinge about things as a sport. Be content with what you have and make it work for you, take some self-determination. Or use your passport. Moaning like a drain and creating a constant w*nkfest of negativity is yawn

I'm British, living in a European country. We, like everywhere else, are suffering the effects of the rising cost of living, Covid, an increasigly overburdened health system etc. However overall, when I compare our situation with family in the UK, we definitely seem to be doing better than the UK. It's just not as grey and negative here and I have no worries that we'll be able to get through the hardships that I believe are going to get worse. I'm not sure I can say the same about my sister in law in the UK and her husband, who earn far, far more than we do. Their money just doesn't go nearly as far as ours does.

So no, the grass is definitely not always greener but my view is that the UK seems to be pretty much bottom of the pile at the moment.

Other than schooling and housing crisis I don't agree. I live abroad. The weather is lovely and it's a great adventure but life is so hard in comparison to the UK. I took so much for granted when living in England. I'm glad I'm here and will enjoy the positives but will be glad to move back in a few years time.

I think the NHS has gone massively downhill and is not fit for purpose.

For the first time in my life, I am going to be taking up my employer’s offer of a private medical policy for me and the kids, and DH is looking at one with his employer - we’ll see which is cheaper overall for us as a family.

We’ve never felt the need to do this before, but the way things are now, we feel we can’t rely on the NHS, and that is scary.

Is this how it will go, the NHS will get worse and worse, until a large chunk of the population is actively choosing private healthcare?

I completely agree.
Life is what you make of it and I’m damned if my (limited due to illness) life is going to be a thoroughly miserable existence.
Be grateful for what you have- and no, I’m not being Pollyanna-ish, I am just fed up with the incessant whinging but doing nothing to make changes.

Is this how it will go, the NHS will get worse and worse, until a large chunk of the population is actively choosing private healthcare?

Recently myself & my mother have been told by GPs/hospital that if we can we should go private for something. My DH has private healthcare & I think I will go on the policy.

My adult son is fond of saying ''This country is finished'' but I remind him we have been lucky to have escaped being stuck in at least 2 different totally failed states and even from a third which is now subject to violent crime , extensive corruption and is also rapidly deteriorating to a fail state as well - all in Africa.

To answer your question as succinctly as possible- yes they are as bad as you detail, and where abroad would depend for me on job skills, language (I don't expect people to know English) and any family ties.

@fyn wow, that high

It's a mixture of poor global economic circumstances and an incompetent government with an incompetent prime minister (certainly on domestic issues anyway) who is also arrogant.

It's fine as long as you follow the rules
Don't be sick
Don't be poor
Don't get old.
Not exactly the country I used to be fairly proud of. But then I think of my elder brother who is all of things in the States and realise its not so bad.

When people complain about the UK it is usually obvious that they have little idea about living conditions for most of this planet. People are dying in the channel daily for an opportunity to live here.

God I hate this rhetoric. My mum left her family at 15 to go to another country to earn money & then came to England a few yrs later where she met my dad who was also an immigrant. Of course England was far better than what they left behind but why be ok with wage stagnation, under funded schools & healthcare because some countries are war torn 🙄

I left the UK years ago, and feel it was the right move, especially after Brexit. My husband had to take a trip to the UK and Ireland a few months ago, and was shocked by how things had visibly gone downhill. Yes of course its better than many places, but its also a lot worse than it used to be! My mum's heating bill is astronomical, she had to go private to get an essential operation recently as the waiting list was years long. And the weather doesn't help.

I do think quality of life as deteriorated massively in the past 20 years or so. I blame the current government and the fact that we have allowed corporate companies to run riot and put profit about people's lives.

Ridiculously priced housing, unreliable but expensive public transport, not being able to see a GP, long waiting list, poor customer service (everything automated benefits the companies, not customers), ridiculous utility bills, high taxes, Brexit...there is little to be cheerful about.

I do think it will get better though but that takes the public waking up and getting rid of Johnson. The rot started at the top...

But I think other countries are not perfect either. I have dual nationality (French) and was thinking about where else could I go...I can't stand the French bureaucracy and I find people there narrow-minded. Language would be an issue when trying to find work in other EU countries and I don't fancy starting again.

But I am thinking of leaving London though for somewhere cheaper and quieter. Interesting that you mention Scotland as I was considering it as a place to escape the Tory rule and Brexit madness...

Having lived abroad under a very unstable and autocratic government (opponents found dead in ravines, that sort of thing) and having also lived in a developed country with limited public medical care, I still think we're bloody lucky.

Take a look at the immigration figures. A lot of people still want to come and live here. Ask yourself why.

I have lived in Germany and New Zealand. Very different countries but quality of life and public services were undescribably better in both those places. I would move back to either in a heartbeat if I could, but it is unlikely to be possible with our jobs now. I really worry about the future I am giving our children living here. And at the moment I worry a lot about what would happen to any of us if we got ill (last time DD7 needed to see the GP it took 4 months of pushing and multiple e-consult forms to get them to agree to see her face to face, and that was for tests to rule out possibly serious conditions)

I think it’s easy to look at other countries and think they have it better. Someone up thread mentioned NZ - they are seeing the highest costs in 30 years. I have family there and they are just coming out of an insane housing bubble where already high house prices grew 33% in 2 years.

People are ordering staples from Australia and paying the freight and GST as food prices are insane ($8 cauliflowers anyone?), food prices are very seasonal (not saying this is a bad thing, just an observation) so unlike the UK if you want tomatoes in winter they are expensive.

Interest rates are going up and a lot of people don’t fix mortgages for more that a 1 or 2 years there (not sure why). Wages have been stagnant for decades, and whilst you can see a GP you have to pay at point of use. If you have a complicated case you might have to be moved from a smaller town to a major city (a friend had a cardiac issue as was moved from Nelson on the South Island to Auckland in the North Island to be treated, was airlifted, but meant that she was on her own and no one could visit, they couldn’t afford the time off work and the journey ).

Also there is a worryingly large American evangelical movement over there - it’s very strange and considering how liberal the social policies of the current government are, I do wonder if that is going to be challenge in the future with a change in government.

With all that said, I haven’t ruled out moving there - we are lucky as we have both european passports and NZ passports, so we have choices, but for now I am staying put and seeing how the next 18 months plays out.

@Whitehorsegirl Scotland are facing fiscal issues due to demographics & climate change although that's not to say a move there would be bad.

"Current projections are for a 68 per cent growth in the number of over-75s in Scotland over the next 25 years, zero growth in the 31-60 age group and a 16% fall in the 16-30 group."

I wonder why people choose to spend their time wondering along litter strewn high streets or big soulless retail parks, no wonder it feels rubbish.
why not take a picnic and a ball to the National trust sites or one of the thousands of country parks with lakes. Go to the villages and find quirky shops selling history for a few pence. A world class museum most are free or cost very little.
Venture to the beautiful wild beaches or go and see brick lane or Buckingham palace?

watch cricket with a pimms, join a ramble in snowdonia or the Highlands or explore the history of where you actually live, you will be surprised for sure - ancient forest walks are everywhere.

if you aren’t enjoying yourself it’s certainly not due to a lack of amazing things on your doorstep, but a mindset of misery that has taken root and become entrenched.

It’s all there if you open your eyes and heart and stop looking inwards, raise your eyes above your navel and see the beauty, culture and history directly around you. I genuinely pity people that go through life with such pessimism and a total lack of gratitude and appreciation.

I've long since given up hope western society will do what is required to prevent its collapse and I'm now actively looking forward to taking what I need and want by force when it happens. Fuck the tories, eat the rich, and god help those I dislike

Thisrevolution when will it happen? What are you going to do to ‘those you dislike’?

@InChocolateWeTrust
Year 2 SATS did to an extent flush out whether kids really were securely on track, they made teachers really up their game in y2 and I think scrapping them was possibly a mistake. They haven't been scrapped yet. Children literally did them last month.

I agree that it's not bad everywhere. Getting a GP appointment is no more difficult here than in was 5 years ago. I teach in a beautiful school with class sizes under 20 and plenty of funding to maintain this. The children from all year groups spend at least a day a week outdoors all year round. In fact, most primary schools have upped their outdoor learning provision in recent years which can only be a good thing. There is much more concern in school for children's MH, even if there isn't anywhere to refer them to. It was ever thus though - CAMHS were underfunded and next to useless 10 years ago too.

We are leaving next year when our dc finish their alevel/gcse. We are professionals and because dh is from the EU we have options. My main concern is moving our money out of the UK because Sterling is down against the Euro. That’s troubling.

OK, so here's another view...

I'm a single mum of one, working full time, no family support. I have a slightly scruffy rural house in the south, I can get a gp's or NHS dentist appt when I need it, I was diagnosed with BC last year, picked up on routine screening, and had surgery, chemo and radiotherapy all within six months. The NHS care was outstanding. And fast.
I'm a mid-earner, am coping with bills, being careful, growing some of my own fruit & veg. My co. has been supportive about my health, and I managed to keep working throughout, working from home. We've had a 3% pay rise which isn't great but business is doing well so we should get a bonus too.

We have well paid vacancies at work that we cannot fill. I've just employed someone from Barcelona who says things are much better in the UK than in Spain. They had no problem getting a visa.

DS needed a new passport in January and it took 4 weeks, no issues. I was able to do the photo at home. He has council swimming lessons which are excellent, £9 a session. Public transport is ludicrously expensive but wfh has countered that for many. I cycle & run so I don't pay gym fees. I do charity runs to raise funds for cancer research.

I don't get involved in political debate because I have better things to do. And I don't do competitive parenting, any one expecting that will get a vague smile and then be ignored. My DS is happy, that's what matters. Other people's parenting views are irrelevant.

So where I live at least, things are not so bad. Yes, they could be better, they aren't perfect but with a bit of resilience it is possible to have a reasonable life. For me, things are improving.

I genuinely pity people that go through life with such pessimism and a total lack of gratitude and appreciation

As long as you’re not sick, poor, old or having to rely on public services.

If we all wandered round in a cloud of gratitude and appreciation for our dear leader then nothing would ever get better for those who aren’t so fortunate. I’m not saying we can’t enjoy things, just that it shouldn’t be a privilege limited to the few. Rather than pitying people perhaps you could be one of the ones to stand up and make a difference?

I actually moved into a job in which I try to make a difference as a career change away from corporate so I’m not just navel gazing. I see from the inside how hard so many people work to try to make things better but this decline seems to be impenetrable, partly because our current politicians are so poor that they depend on crisis after crisis to stay in power.

One thing that I have heard from people who have moved recently is that they have found it much harder to make friends and very much took that for granted here, interesting to see this has resonated with some too.