Talk me down - is this country really so bad?

[BluePassportsAreBollocks]

I’m a long time MN user, NC for this.

Anyway, I’m really down about what our country has become. I’m Scottish but live in England, so much of what I’m saying relates to England but Scotland is just as bad if not worse whenever I go back (before anyone comes along and tells me that it’s all rainbows and unicorns elsewhere!).

The quality of our public services is pitiful. You can’t get a doctors appt, mental health support non existent, hospital backlogs, social care on its knees, schools underperforming, staff in every public sector unhappy and considering going on strike, huge wealth inequalities, huge health inequalities, outrageous profiteering by private companies exploiting the rise in inflation for their own gain (energy, fuel, food, travel), companies cutting their customer service to a shoestring level where it takes 45 mins for someone to pick the phone up only to tell you to use the online contact form, customer service in general appalling and delivered by people who just don’t care, continued and endless political divisions forced upon us and tearing people apart (divide and rule… brexit, boris, scexit, covid), no reply for days and weeks for administrative services like passports, overcrowded public transport, completely unattainable house prices, exorbitant cost of childcare, everything about parenting is a completion, I could go on and on.

I am genuinely thinking of looking for work abroad. But before I do, can someone please tell me…

1. Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.

2. If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??

I value the relative freedom we have here personally. I see government overreach in other countries. I can't think of anywhere better to live in terms of freedom on how we live our lives and raise our children.

This is often overlooked when people look at liberal Nordic countries and pine for their apparently idyllic way of life. There can sometimes be a sinister undercurrent of 'thought conformity' in these countries that does not seem to exist in England in my opinion. The reason those countries work so well is because everyone keeps in line. England may not be perfect but I never feel unable to say or think whatever i want to.

Healthcare is free

Nope. You all pay for it with extremely high taxes.

Although we have private healthcare here, my taxes are less than half what someone in the UK on my salary would be paying. Our sales tax is less than half what you pay as VAT. I’ve crunched them numbers. Even with my healthcare costs, assuming I reach the maximum out-of-pocket every year, plus my taxes still come in less than what my taxes would be on this salary in the UK. And the quality of care is far better, survival rates for cancer are better.

We also have Medicaid for those unable to get insurance and Medicare for the retired.

Yes of course its better than many places, but its also a lot worse than it used to be!
Short and to the point, that's exactly what I felt like the last time I visited. I hardly recognised it. I felt so so unsafe even during the day. People looked a bit miserable as in I'm having a bad day, get away. They used to walk with their heads held high but were walking staring at their feet and that was before Brexit.

I've heard this before about the Nordic countries and I find it interesting, never having been to Scandinavia - can you give any examples? All I know is that there's much less of a drinking culture than in the UK and I believe it's difficult to buy beer in some parts (though that might have changed since I heard it).

You all pay for it with extremely high taxes.

pp posted our taxes were low and we needed to raise them for public services

So from both sides.

iirc we are moderately tax - eg in the middle compared to similar countries but I’m going by memory rather than googling

I'm in Fife and have no issues with getting NHS dentistry and GP appointments. My practice is fully staffed. I do know that the local NHS is advertising lots of vacancies for nursing and medical staff but brexit has made recruitment much more difficult.

My kids have both been through Uni without tuiton fees, I get 5 prescriptions per month and as a low earner I pay less tax than I would in England. We give more money to children in poverty and have no bedroom tax.

My country is doing well, or as well as it can given the circumstances and the fact that we don't have full control of our budget.

I felt so so unsafe even during the day. People looked a bit miserable as in I'm having a bad day, get away. They used to walk with their heads held high but were walking staring at their feet and that was before Brexit.

Oceanus blimey where did you visit?

But the reason that the GP service is so bad is because it needs to be totally reformed but no political party is willing to do it.

We can't fix something that isn't fit for purpose.

There was a tv program a few months ago which looked at how primary care is handled in other countries. None was perfect but they were a lot better than our system.

It is ridiculous that you have to see a GP to be referred to a sprecialist. GPs are just overpaid middlemen.

I think this country is good if you are self-sufficient. Meaning you don't need anything from government; medical help, education. If you are healthy and can think for yourself you're good. I have no issues here. I'm not wealthy but I have my health and brain and live very happily and comfortably. I would not want to live anywhere else at all to be honest. We are free to do as we please on the whole, and I value that because I like to direct my own life.

I haven't lived in the UK for a long time, I'm in South West Brittany. I live in the countryside and we have no public transport. However, I can get a face to face doctor's appointment this afternoon if I need it. Last time I went to A&E with my son, he was in with the doctor and having treatment before I had finished filling in the paperwork.

The education system is good, in that my DCs have both passed through the system and done well. My DC2 is off to university in September, his course is free, because we are a low income family he will be given a grant of 5,000 euros and he has been given accommodation in university accommodation where the rent is lower. DC1 is in a private university his fees are 4,300 a year. He is given housing benefit to help pay for his rent.

I have a large 120m2 house, my electricity bill last month was 65 euros (about £60) and that's not estimated that's exactly what I used.

Yes, fuel is expensive, but it's the same everywhere.

On Wednesday I will have my fuel for central heating delivered. I'll pay for half of this with a 250 euro cheque given to me by the government. In December I had air heat pumps and a new hot water heater fitted (I don't know the name in English sorry), it was to the value of 20K, because I'm low income it was free. Next month I will have a new pellet burner fitted in my living room, again, free.

I agree food is expensive and rising, I have to make economies, and yes, there is very poor customer support in France and things can take a long time. But once you're in the system things move very well. I get lots of financial support, including 500 euros a year to take my children on holiday and also 50 euros a year to go towards any sporting activity they would like to do. Childcare is means tested and still so much cheaper than the UK. Holiday clubs cost a few hundred for the month not thousands. Until the age of 18, each September I am paid approx 400 euros for each child to help with the cost of buying back to school items and because I was low income I qualified for a grant which paid for the school meals, anything extra that needed to be paid at school and this year there will be 500 euros left over which will be paid into my bank account.

I don't pay tax, but I do pay 22% of income in the equivalent of NI contributions.

My council tax equivalent for the year is 700 euros.

My son is autistic and he has had 1:1 classroom support from the age of 6 to 19. He has suffered from stress at university and they were falling over themselves to set him up with a mental health professional to support him.

Life in France can be difficult, the culture, the language etc but it's not bad and I have no wish to return to the UK.

@psychomath having just come back from living in Copenhagen for 19 months - here's the differences. Definitely not less of a drinking culture ! But less of a get totally wazzed culture- certainly in Copenhagen. Very much more into 'health' than UK- lots of cycling (in normal clothes) roads geared up to it. Much better public transport. I once described it to someone as a giant Waitrose mindset. Very rarely saw much disorder or kids or partners yelled at in street . Quite'rules' minded- this is how we do it etc- some of it very petty- wo betide if you don't cut your verges etc!! immigrants well integrated and toddlers encouraged to be at nursery by£240 a month nursery feed. Tons of pre school breakfast care. Lots of high paid flexible working- got to be honest whilst I think it's fantastic for those with young families there's a ton of knocking off at 3 going on. Service extremely haphazard as so many seem to work so few hours, pay is high lots of places very understaffed. No council tax, no national insurance and as I mentioned childcare very very affordable, 46% tax, extremely clean , public services very good. Healthcare is a funny one, it's free and high quality , but like uk not easy to access quickly and trying to buy medication over the counter a nightmare, basically the only things on display are3 generic pain killers. They really don't seem to go for medication. Rented housing is very good quality indeed, unless you are really at the budget end, not London money but not far off- - No Amazon, no Uber. Therefore you get a very wide range of shops but cabs are extortionate. It's safe, clean, ordered, well managed- Copenhagen is also quite 'hipster' - everyone speaks English well that I met . They are very much a nation though of Denmark for the Danes- they tolerate immigrants and there is little obvious outward xenophobia - but in my opinion they def consider you second rate- and that apply a just as much to a Spaniard or Brit as it does a Syrian.

We went to Sweden a lot whilst there and I much prefer it to live- it's cheaper , does have Amazon and Uber, food quality is better, they do have a strange system on buying drink though, you can only buy booze for home at certain places at certain times (the places are a bit like Majestic- not done dive) . Seem to be somewhat less xenophobic and they are huge Anglophile's, so you get British pubs etc

I've visited countries where there are no refuse collections & people burn rubbish in their gardens in rural areas

I've seen lots of other things that people take for granted

No benefits

No free health care

No where is perfect

Look at history & see how far we have progressed with living standards, health & social standards

I also have to pay 100 euros a month additionally for my health insurance, this is for me and my 2 children. I chose a middle of the range policy and last year I got 2 pairs of Ray Ban glasses for just an additional payment of 80 euros.

Dentists are difficult to find. I will be having a check up on holiday in Turkey this year as it's easier to get an appointment.

My elderly relatives quote, there was food & other rationing until the 1950s

Look at history & see how far we have progressed with living standards, health & social standards

But isn't that the crux of it? We have come far but we are going backwards.

Let’s hope Scotland doesn’t vote for independence as this is all paid for by the British tax payer chocolate and Scotland will end up with third world status.
Look at the economics and how this is funded versus Scotland’s GDP. That will tell you everything you need to know.

The UK economy has the lowest growth forecast in the G20, except for Russia. YANBU

Even places like Japan where things work better than UK and Europe have negatives like long working hours, loads of antiquated rules and practices, deeply ingrained sexist attitudes. There are bad points with every country. On the whole I would say UK is much closer to the top of the list than the bottom.

London! Hahah! Honest, I thought people looked miserable. I went to Pret near Tottenham Court Road and this guy walked in and started harassing and shouting at a lady who wouldn't give him money, nobody helped her, nobody.
I stayed at a hotel in East London near Spitalfields as I'd lived there so I thought I'd be in my comfort zone and I'd never ever seen so many homeless people there. It wasn't like that before. I could go home at 4 am and not bat an eyelid. There were lots of bums around Liverpool St station before but most of them they were the police working undercover! hahah!
I've been since but those were short trips so I didn't do much walking but half the shops were closed, it was all boarded up.

I remember (just) the Briain of the 70s and 80s and we made huge progress since the. My school building was derelict with no books, let alone computers, every seaside town was a rundown and depressing, trains never ran on time, coal mining and steel industries closed taking whole towns with them, teenagers left schools in many areas with no hope.

Then we had 2-3 decades of relative Nirvana, but it really does feel like we're slipping back there now.

@brittanyfairies

The problem is that France has been living beyond its means for decades and things are only going to get worse with the recent elections. That is why your public services are so good and your pension age so low.

France is hoping that Germany will bail it out but I think that the Germans are getting fed up of bailing countries out.

Completely agree @ILoveAllRainbowsx . We are very fortunate as we have health insurance through DH work but we can’t even get through to our GP surgery for the referrals! DH ended up in A&E recently. Was told he needed urgent change in meds. He can’t even get an appointment to do this so
is a bit of a ticking time bomb. Totally agree with your point about why should they be the middlemen?

Am sadly thankful that I have two friends who are medical negligence lawyers.

The poor are suffering far, FAR more but even those lucky enough to have a cushion are finding standards backsliding.

Sixth wealthiest country in the world should not have a buckling health system and poverty level pensions.

@Ffsbrainscrambled

Yes, I agree with most of your post except the part about having decent pensions.

Unfortunately, people are living longer and more unhealthly lifes. No country can afford this. It is not fair to expect the young to pay for this. You can't work for 30 years and then be retired for 30 years and have free health treatment and expect other people to pay for it.

No country can afford that. Something has to be done but no party is willing to do it as too many old people vote and too many young people do not.

I am old (mid 50s) and I feel so sorry for the younger generation. We have had everything and want more and more in retirement. The young have had nothing. They can't even buy a house.

They can't even buy a house.

Apparently we can solve that with 50 year mortgages that you pass on to your dc! I think we treat young people with contempt in this county. I don't get it, I have dc & want them to have more opportunity than I did not less.