Talk me down - is this country really so bad?

[BluePassportsAreBollocks]

I’m a long time MN user, NC for this.

Anyway, I’m really down about what our country has become. I’m Scottish but live in England, so much of what I’m saying relates to England but Scotland is just as bad if not worse whenever I go back (before anyone comes along and tells me that it’s all rainbows and unicorns elsewhere!).

The quality of our public services is pitiful. You can’t get a doctors appt, mental health support non existent, hospital backlogs, social care on its knees, schools underperforming, staff in every public sector unhappy and considering going on strike, huge wealth inequalities, huge health inequalities, outrageous profiteering by private companies exploiting the rise in inflation for their own gain (energy, fuel, food, travel), companies cutting their customer service to a shoestring level where it takes 45 mins for someone to pick the phone up only to tell you to use the online contact form, customer service in general appalling and delivered by people who just don’t care, continued and endless political divisions forced upon us and tearing people apart (divide and rule… brexit, boris, scexit, covid), no reply for days and weeks for administrative services like passports, overcrowded public transport, completely unattainable house prices, exorbitant cost of childcare, everything about parenting is a completion, I could go on and on.

I am genuinely thinking of looking for work abroad. But before I do, can someone please tell me…

1. Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.

2. If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??

I would also like to add, I have a very unique perspective as an outsider who has lived in a well off western place for most of her life and then moved to England.
A previous poster put it very well. If you compare the uk to the rest of the world it looks pretty good. If you compare it to other western countries it looks pretty bad.

We had an emergency with my dh in Spain and the treatment from start to finish was exemplary and put the NHS to shame. The drugs were cheaper too, and all free for the Spanish (and British with an GHIC). We waited in ER for all of 10 minutes before being seen . . .. The staff were quick, efficient and didn't stand around talking to each other. He had an iv in within 45 minutes for antibiotics, and he was treated and discharged with a prescription for more antibiotics within 2 hours. The prescription cost 4 euros, and the staff were fantastic.

My point is that he would have waited probably 12 hours in the UK.

Oh yes, and he ended up at the hospital because our English GP misdiagnosed.

I've lived abroad and every country has its plus and negatives. It has definitely got worse here , We need a new government but I think the rest of the world is also having its own problems.

To answer your original question, yes it is that bad, in fact it's probably worse and if the Human Rights Act is rescinded it will get a hell of a lot worse.

Life in Singapore is a breeze - assuming you earn a high salary and have excellent health insurance. If you do, the medical care is phenomenal and instant. And everything else works like clockwork - transport, litter picking etc. However, Singapore doesn't have the best bits of the UK and as I said, you need to earn a high salary to enjoy life.

“Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.”

Yes @BluePassportsAreBollocks things are really as bad as they feel here. They are on average better than the USA probably, I think that’s the mental comparison people tend to make, I think the UK is considerably better on all the major metrics. However, just looking in the Anglo sphere- Rep. of Ireland does better on all major metrics from poverty to GDP to quality of life/standard of living, life expectancy. Canada does well on these metrics too, New Zealand does well on all major metrics when compared to UK, Australia also does but admittedly the climate crisis could severely negate those advantages within a decade. Beyond English speaking developed countries, go to the OECD website and take a look at all rankings, UK is rarely the worst (apart from projected economic growth!) but it’s often close to the middle of the pack occasionally lower. Lots of countries are relatively thriving- Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Germany, Japan, the list goes on. Why? Hard to say, I think it’s political culture really, in some places the population put a lot of pressure on their politicians to show they are thinking of the long game, in UK it seems to be more lurching from one emergency to the next, recently anyway.

“If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??”

Assuming you want to stay English-speaking:

New Zealand- great quality of life, good healthcare, temporate climate, friendly decent people, safe, good education, good childcare.
Canada- not perfect, but economically more robust, very open egalitarian society generally, they envy a lot about what the UK used to to in terms of infrastructure and social safety net but they are fast catching up and will probably soon surpass UK on these measures
Ireland- just a hop over, higher pay and career prospects, good economy, state education is high quality and university is cheaper. Safe country, less poverty, friendly with good strong communities generally. However property prices in Dublin are insane, so somewhere like Kilkenny, Wexford or Cork might be a better bet.

All of the above are just a bit more hopeful and dynamic too, that’s the main problem in the UK at moment, the problems feel impossible to overcome. They are the same problems as everywhere else, but I think because of the first past the post system there’s been an odd situation of the majority of the electorate voting for progressive or centrist parties but getting conservative rule for over a decade! Not hard to see why people are losing the will to change things.

Definitely move for a while, life’s too short, there are lots of incredible places to live! Home is home, but plenty of people make very happy lives for themselves in new locations, worst case scenario- you spend a few years finding out why you prefer home

Yep. It's shit

Health care is really bad here now. It does vary somewhat depending on where you are, but for example getting a gp my province is simply not going to happen. They have been trying to hook up people who need refills and such to doctors over zoom but that is now also (predictably) overwhelmed. If you need something and have no GP if you are lucky you might get into a walk in clinic, otherwise it is the ER. Where you will likely wait at least six hours and quite possibly more.

Inflation is crazy like every place, gas is very high, and our public transport is, generally speaking, worse than the UK. Housing is a serious issue in most places, there simply isn't enough. Last summer tent cities went up across the city I was living in, something I'd never seen in 40 years there. Now they have more shelters open but still aren't really addressing the underlying issues.

And it's harder to put a finger on, but cultural type stuff is becoming a lot worse. I had a friend visit, from an area of the UK that was considered very pro-covid measures, she said she found it stifling here. Our press is not very good, there is nothing like the open social discourse in the UK. Our political leaders are pretty poor, it will tell you something when I say that if any of our party leaders were at the level of Boris Johnson it would be a relief.😮I also think things are heating up towards some kind of blow up around racial tensions , and I don't know what will happen with that - it worries me a lot because it is being stoked for political gain.

Well yes, the rich are very rarely affected by the problems of society. Ivory towers are hard to scale but my god they will be fun to pull down.

I've long since given up hope western society will do what is required to prevent its collapse and I'm now actively looking forward to taking what I need and want by force when it happens. Fuck the tories, eat the rich, and god help those I dislike. ✊

The problem is that this country has been infinitely better in (my) living memory. We’ve essentially had public services we’d already paid for taken from us. We didn’t need austerity, that was a political choice by the Tories. We’ve had over ten years of it now so a huge amount of investment would be needed to get things back to where they were, but for some reason people kept voting to impoverish their services. The memory of how to do things well will have been lost in lots of areas. The quality of service in most sectors has dropped because the government only values the bottom line and if organisations aren’t held to certain standards they aren’t likely to go above and beyond. The only organisations the government seem to scrutinise are publicly funded broadcasters. I wonder why.

I kive in Denmark. Most things work as they should. Customer service is pretty good, value for money less so. However Ive been here 15 years and have no friends. British people are friendlier and funnier.

Things aren't great here but it could be a whole lot worse! I'd say the majority of countries in the world are worse than the UK. There's free education and a social care system for a start.

I find these threads interesting as often people who live in the countries discussed come on and give an insiders view.

I wouldn’t personally move, not because I think the uk is all that (I think we do a lot right but a lot is Could Do Better) but because I wouldn’t always want to feel on the periphery of acceptance.

I will say that aged almost 42, I have seen things go bad and get better, go bad and get better, go bad and get better … Things do tend to be somewhat cyclical in nature and post covid / brexit was always going to be challenging.

I moved to Spain a decade ago with the intention of staying a year, but I haven’t wanted to return yet.

childcare is free here from age 2, and heavily subsidised before that. Paternity leave (paid) is 6 months, equal to maternity. The health system is one of the best in the world (also free). Beach and tapas and churros on doorstep etc. education is pretty good too, we live in a bit city but only 20 kids in my dc primary class.

The cons: we are seeing inflation and fuel rises like everywhere and will certainly be tightening our belts, and it’s been hard until recently to feel Fully integrated with my language level not high enough. I’m heavily taxed and we earn less than we would in the uk.

I wouldn’t go back to live in the uk, but I do love it and make use of the long holidays to spend a lot of time there filling up on cultural activities and countryside. Absence has made the heart fonder in that respect. I’m always shocked by the state of the roads, traffic and the sad high streets there.

My husband and I just recently moved here with our two children (my husband is English, born and bred here but had not lived here prior to our move for more than 15 years, I am from another country).
We are both absolutely shocked at the state of public services (I have been waiting for my spouse visa for 5 months now, getting a simple GP appointment - recently it took me about a month to see a doctor and I am absolutely terrified for my children to get ill here, childcare provision basically not existent and horrendously expensive).
Everything, just everything required waiting - open a bank account? Let's make an appointment for you for next week. You want an account in another currency (USD)? Was asked to wait for about a month for an appointment so eventually gave up. The property prices vs salaries ratio is very poor.
I am absolutely flabbergasted at how this country manages to be one of the leading developed countries having such poor standards in simply everything.
I would in a heartbeat go back to where we lived before but war in Ukraine sadly made it impossible:(((

I moved to Switzerland from the UK. Taxes are lower and public services much better at the same time. I very much love the UK and its people but I would not move back now.

I think like any country it depends who you are/whats going on in your life.

For instance we are feeling the impact of rising prices, poor gp service, etc but my best friend has just had a promotion, is getting married in Tuscany at sunset in a few months time, has just bought her own house at 24, is happier than ever, etc.

I don't think there's any answer, I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere but I'm always being told other people's lives don't look as glamorous as their social media accounts so many people abroad's lives aren't as great as they look from far away?

There are many, many, things I’d like to see improve in this country.

Rates of literacy and basic numeracy are way too low for a “developed” country. NHS services are held together by what remains of the good will of financially under-appreciated staff. Our support for the Arts collapsed years before austerity, and we seem intent on dumbing down what we’ve got left.

The gap between the richest and everyone else started accelerating under Blair and it’s been on a sprint since. We’ve managed to produce a generation which, for the first time in decades, has lower life expectancy and less opportunity for upward social mobility than their parents.

We’re, in the round, a filthy nation. The amount of litter that is either negligently or deliberately dropped on pavements and countryside alike is heartbreaking to see. The citizens of most European countries I’ve visited take much more personal responsibility for not shitting all over the area they live in.

I desperately want to be proud of “Great” Britain, but waving a few flags in the Albert Hall, or harking back to a rose tinted view of the empire days, doesn’t disguise the lived reality of this country.

Makes me laugh when people say the NHS is free. It's not free though is it, and neither are the other public services we pay a hefty tax for and yet they're all shite.

@Bloodyel I'm confused by the all the free healthcare & education. Isn't this all paid for via tax

Nearly 2/3 of the world lives on less than $5.50 per day - so just under £1,640 a year. I think it’s really easy to forget actually how privileged we actually are.

The U.K. is a great country, the real problem is people tend to not appreciate it because they haven’t lived overseas! Try getting anything at all done in Italy and Spain, it literally takes months and months.

Second rate customer service is happening everywhere - post pandemic people are exhausted and mentally drained. If you are interested then read up about the brain inflammation caused by relentless stress. It hasn’t just happened here but everywhere.

by all means move overseas if you want to, but don’t be surprised when you find the same problems there or worse. At least it would be an experience, assuming you haven’t got children you are going to uproot for your experiment.

if focus on what you can do to make your life more interesting, uplifting and enjoyable. Plenty of us are having a great summer regardless of the gloomy news on a loop. Get out and enjoy yourself ☀️

@Bloodyel @hatchyu it’s probably because over half of the country are net recipients from the government so it essentially free.

There are problems wherever you go. Some will be different ones. When people complain about the UK it is usually obvious that they have little idea about living conditions for most of this planet. People are dying in the channel daily for an opportunity to live here.

I haven't lived in the UK for nearly 20 years so I can't comment on its current state but I agree with everyone saying that there's good and bad everywhere. I'm in France where climate change seems to be getting very real, with temperatures of nearly 40°C even in the north recently, lack of rainfall, forest fires which seem to get worse every year and so on.

On a different note our healthcare system is very good, our education system can be brutal although the kids definitely learn things, our countryside is lovely as are parts of our cities. Other parts of some cities are awful with crime, etc. The far right isn't far from power, which scares me. Attitudes to some things e.g. animal welfare and drink driving can be shocking (at least I find them shocking) although that is changing.

I am in a FB group where they look at French archives from the 17th/18th centuries and life back then was far from easy, with disease, hunger and marauding soliders!