Talk me down - is this country really so bad?

[BluePassportsAreBollocks]

I’m a long time MN user, NC for this.

Anyway, I’m really down about what our country has become. I’m Scottish but live in England, so much of what I’m saying relates to England but Scotland is just as bad if not worse whenever I go back (before anyone comes along and tells me that it’s all rainbows and unicorns elsewhere!).

The quality of our public services is pitiful. You can’t get a doctors appt, mental health support non existent, hospital backlogs, social care on its knees, schools underperforming, staff in every public sector unhappy and considering going on strike, huge wealth inequalities, huge health inequalities, outrageous profiteering by private companies exploiting the rise in inflation for their own gain (energy, fuel, food, travel), companies cutting their customer service to a shoestring level where it takes 45 mins for someone to pick the phone up only to tell you to use the online contact form, customer service in general appalling and delivered by people who just don’t care, continued and endless political divisions forced upon us and tearing people apart (divide and rule… brexit, boris, scexit, covid), no reply for days and weeks for administrative services like passports, overcrowded public transport, completely unattainable house prices, exorbitant cost of childcare, everything about parenting is a completion, I could go on and on.

I am genuinely thinking of looking for work abroad. But before I do, can someone please tell me…

1. Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.

2. If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??

"I still think our health and welfare system is second to none"

Now imagine free at point of entry systems where, I dunno... Dentistry is included except add ons, you can go to gyno when you have issues without having to beg GP. You actually have regular gyno checks and dentistry checks with regular gp check ups too!

UK helathcare system is second to many.... Stop comparing US, start comparing Europe mainland

Stop comparing US, start comparing Europe mainland
yep

The NHS have been amazing for me in emergency situations but long term health & chronic conditions is where they are lacking.

Well, that's a pointless response.

First, the question is whether or not things are dire, not what do about it.

Second, even if the question were what do about it, the answer would not necessarily be to run away. It might be, for instance, to stay and try to do something about it.

People give your answer all the time. "Don't bloody like it, just leave."

I'd prefer, I think, to stay and try to change things to the point that such people start to think about taking their own advice. Unless, of course, they'd like to talk about how they'd want to see things change and do something to help.

I lived overseas for 20+ years. One thing I realised during this time is how a lot of UK citizens have no realisation about how easy they have things in the UK compared to a lot of other parts of the world and take so much for granted.

I loved living overseas though, so if you have wanderlust go for it. Just don't expect everything to be much better than here. Some things may be better but certainly not everything.

@UrbanCoyote May I ask where you lived and what you found harder? To balance my moaning upthread, I will add that I think those of us in London take for granted the amazing, plentiful public transport as we focus on the odd time when our trains/tubes/buses let us down.

@Ffsbrainscrambled I lived in Hong Kong. Things I found harder - cost of living. We rented a relatively modest apartment (by UK standards), two bedrooms, tiny kitchen, balcony (no garden). We paid nearly 6 thousand pounds a month for that. Supermarkets small, produce poor (food regularly expiring on shelves) - also much more expensive. Needed private health - a Public Health Service is available but limited, long waiting times. Good for emergencies but getting stuff like hip replacements would be impossible. Those without private health would either put up with it or go to places like Thailand/Vietnam for cheaper surgery.

Lack of freedom - turning literally into a police state. No-one there now would dare challenge authority. Large prison sentences for protesting. Stop and search routine for the youth - with no real grounds to object.

School fees exorbitant - if you want an international style curriculum/educational experience.

Weather for most part of the year is incredibly hot and humid.

Virtually no safety net for those in poverty.

There were things I adore about the place and I loved living there but opens eyes to how much we take for granted in the UK.

@Ffsbrainscrambled ironically though public transport is exceptional in Hong Kong. Cheap, incredibly clean and incredibly reliable tube system. Cheap and plentiful buses, trams and ferries. Taxies very cheap as well.

Racism a big problem though particularly against black or south East Asians.

I lived in HK as an expat and in several other Asian/European countries. HK was super expensive and it was only worth it for us on an expat package with school, health and housing included. Ditto many other countries. Locals have it even harder, but they can send their kids to local schools taught in home language.

As a brown person, I experienced a fair amount of racism in HK, both in the workplace and on the streets. I did love the safety, great public transport, and the cosmopolitan nature of the city.

Thanks @UrbanCoyote for your response and sorry to hear about your experience @LobeliaBaggins

Working hours also awful in Hong Kong, most people in 'office' type roles regularly work over 12 hour days - and in finance would be doing calls to 11pm at night (for the US). There is an expectation to do long hours. When the UK offered BNO passports to Hong Kongers recently - my immediate thought was that UK would benefit so much from an influx of people from Hong Kong. Typically gentle, hard working folk.

London public transport may be plentiful. It is also filthy, overcrowded, expensive, and most people have fairly long and unpleasant commutes. Unless its less crowded now due to Covid? I don't know, I left London years ago, but my commute was an unpleasant yet pretty standard one hour each way and I do not miss it at all. I'm in West Australia now and public transport is clean, on time and reliable. All fares were capped last year at 2 zones max, so my 35 minute train trip to the city centre costs under $2. There are also free buses in the city centre. There are many things I miss about London, my commute isn't one of them.

I mean under 2 pounds not $2.

A 100ml glass of house wine costs £5+ in a cheap bar / restaurant.
@user1487768885 in Lucerne I paid 7CHF (£6) for a glass of fresh apple juice.

That said, in a Hammersmith gastropub I paid £12 for a 250ml glass of rosé. If I'd checked the price before ordering (from the bar, not the menu) I'd have gone for a soft drink.

Trouble is that whenever anyone thinks about reform, Labour and the Guardian screech about the US system and the politicians back off. So we're stuck with this system which is supposedly "the envy of the world", yet no one has ever envied it enough to copy it.

Met/H&C/District/Circle are all running air-conditioned trains built between 5-12 years ago. Thameslink is now state-of-the-art, Crossrail has just opened with brand new everything. I was there the other week, travelling on a Sunday afternoon and on a Monday morning (right in the middle of the peak) and didn't notice much overcrowding - except for Kings Cross/St Pancras on the Sunday, perhaps a Eurostar had just arrived.

Well that all sounds like progress! What is the tube like at rush hour these days, and how much is a typical daily ticket now? My six zone annual pass was about 4k twenty odd years ago ( mine was paid for by work). I 'm guessing its quite a bit more now!

It's free at the point of use across most of Europe as well. Stop swallowing the myth that the NHS is magical and unique. It isn't.

I mean about 400 pounds not 4k!

"Our national health service will offer you life saving treatment if you need it. The police generally investigate serious crime fairly. Our streets aren’t over flowing with rubbish. Every child goes to school. It isn’t a racist country and we don’t have the death penalty etc"

Most of the world has state healthcare. The NHS isn't unique. Our police literally murder us and share pics of our bodies. Yes, the streets are overflowing with rubbish, have you stepped outside lately? Actually lots of children don't go to school as they are refused places and forced to be homeschooled. Families are in despair but no one does anything to help them. It's a very racist country. 'At least we don't have the death penalty' is scraping the barrel a bit.

My parents brought me up on the same nonsense, that England was the best because we had policemen and hospitals, but none of it was true. It's the poor man of Europe. Always has been. Devoid of culture and cohesive society and violently individualistic.

So many Brits can't compare the UK to Europe because they haven't really been. Two weeks in a tatty hotel complex and they think 'well I could never live here'.

The NHS isn't free, you are paying for it partly with NI, so it's free at point of use. It was free when we were in Denmark as they don't have NI- they have high taxation though but higher wages. If you move to Spain for instance, you pay in but it's quite reasonable and other things are cheaper than UK. It's all swings and roundabouts. I do wish people wouldn't compare to US- it's not the same thing at all- US system is mental expensive and relies on it being part of packages for many

So many Brits can't compare the UK to Europe because they haven't really been. Two weeks in a tatty hotel complex and they think 'well I could never live here'.

I would dare to say the same can be said about US... Yet US is being trotted out all the time.
There are these devices which allow us to see basically all information world has to offer. I am sure many talking about US system didn't experience it themselves and have it from somewhere else. True, German/Austrain/Italian healthcare systems don't heavily feature on our tvs, but if someone wants to find out more... Well only things really stopping them might be a low battery.

So many Brits can't compare the UK to Europe because they haven't really been. Two weeks in a tatty hotel complex and they think 'well I could never live here'.

I thought it more the opposite - holiday in nice weather must be much nicer to live here. You only know the reality if you give it a good length of time.

Well I went on the Piccadilly line from Zone 2 to Zone 1 at around 8:30am on a Monday morning (not school holidays or a Bank Holiday weekend, just a normal Monday) and there were spare seats. An effect of the pandemic. Avanti trains out of Euston that day (around lunchtime) were all full (but not standing) so not everything is quiet, but HS2 will help add capacity out of Euston.

I'm not sure what your employer was getting for its £4k 20 years ago but a zone 1-6 annual travelcard today is £2,812, and a zone 1-9 £4,008 (and how many passengers commute daily from Amersham/Chesham to Zone 1 anyway?)