Pronouns - Can someone remind me why we are against this in emails

[landantan]

Hi

Can someone remind me why some people (likely myself included) does not agree with stated pronouns in email signatures?

It is being requested at work from the perspective of being a small step to being an ally to LGBTQ+ community.

I just think it is a bit pointless and whilst I have nothing against this or any other community I cannot see what knowing or sharing pronouns really does apart from make you look like a bit of a tit.

Can someone offer a more articulate explanation please?

I agree. It is a cop out to say "but it's policy" if my work had a policy that said I had to call people "cis" I would be challenging that vigorously. To openly use language people find offensive is plain wrong.

Yep.

If you do this you are part of the problem, and if you do it knowingly you are happy to be a part of the problem.

Out of interest, @beautyisthefaceisee, if your training materials used a word which you subsequently learned that many people consider to be a racist slur, would you continue to use it simply because those are Big Brother's instructions? Or would you say, "hey guys, just as a heads up, a lot of people find this word offensive, perhaps we should stop using it"?

Well, given I wouldn't actually use the word in my day to day practice (I work in a school) - I would cerrtainly raise in conversation in the staffroom that forums find it offensive and why. We debate things quite openly in our base (can't say all do).

If I HAD to use it in practice? I'm not sure. I'm not in that predicament just yet.

I did have to teach the word "cisgender" as my original subject was RE though. It's part of the curriculum in many schools.

Morals pay the bills now, or being struck off the teaching register, do they?

I did have to teach the word "cisgender" as my original subject was RE though.

Makes sense.

Gender ideology is just a religious belief, after all.

I find it offensive that donut and the ilk claim misandry doesn't exist, but that doesn't seem to stop people.

Don't be ridiculous.

Do you seriously think you're going to get the sack for not using the word "cisgender"?

See that's where yo ulose me.

You can't expect me to respect that cisgender is offensive just because you say so and then not respect my belief that trans is ideology.

I'm protected by the law. You're not. So re the cisgender, you're relying on my good will. Which I'm not getting back.

Isnt. Isnt ideology.

It's a belief that humans have sexed souls, and that most people have a soul which matches their genitals whereas trans people have a soul which doesn't match their genitals.

There is precisely zero evidence for this, by the way.

People who refuse to pretend they believe in this are shunned as heathens.

How is it not an ideology?

Could have written this myself. And as a 'member' of the LGB community (lesbian) I feel women are being erased by some aspects of this whole movement.
I've refused to do it at work and been very clear as to why.

Cisgender isn't offensive because it's a policy that has been accepted.

See how we could play this game all day?

It's funny that you demand the respect of something that ultimately is just your own feelings but won't budge on other people's. And round and round it goes.

Ultimately you'd be in court for being transphobic but I wouldn't for using the term cisgender. and I'M the one with the problem.

FWIW - I'd back you in anything you found offensive. But you're not willing to compromise with me.

Re the soul chat - that's utter bollocks. SOME people may believe that. But your continued belief that its black and white is also part of the problem.

Cisgender isn't offensive because it's a policy that has been accepted.

See how we could play this game all day?

Not really, that's a total non sequitur.

It's funny that you demand the respect of something that ultimately is just your own feelings but won't budge on other people's. And round and round it goes.

No, the existence of biological sex and the need to have words to accurately describe it is not just my own feelings.

And I can't respect other people's feelings if doing so requires me to deny reality.

Ultimately you'd be in court for being transphobic but I wouldn't for using the term cisgender.

Yes, because we are now apparently living in a religious dictatorship.

FWIW - I'd back you in anything you found offensive. But you're not willing to compromise with me.

What compromise are you looking for?

Well, if I'm HONEST - me not using cisgender would only involve your feelings, because I don't believe it's offensive. But I'd do it to spare your feelings.

So with that, would you be willing to use someone's pronouns, and not dismiss their beliefs? There's a starting point.

Eh, I can't quite work out how you think YOU are the victim of a religious dictatorship when youre the one deciding that someone else's identity doesn't exist.

Not just TRA but MRA.

Who'd have thought it?

Doesn't like women saying no, that's for damn sure.

Oh, my little Donut <3

You are so brilliantly batshit I miss you when you're not here <3

I could get you two strikes for that post, but I find you so utterly entertaining I don't think I will.

Out of interest - there's trans rights activists, and mens rights activitists - both of those offensive terms and used on here to describe people who dare to support trans or men (btw Donut, I was a massive supporter of the #notallmen, so get tapping away in fury) is there a wra? I call them batshit feminists, but is there a real term? Or is it that women are always right?

Sorry for the derail @babyjellyfish .(i actually have a phobia of jellyfish so I struggeld writingt hat lol). Even though we are vehemently opposed in our views, and we have our moments, I'm very interested in having a respectful discussion with you, and I can see aspects in some of the things you write. Sorry that my little donut pal has derailed again. She can't help herself.

its a strike per post

and not at the behest of another poster

I do share my pronoun, and also that I'm a Mrs at the end of my email. It has traditionally been a thing to put "Jane Smith (Mrs)" at the end of letters so I don't see it as a big issue putting Mrs/ she/ her. Trans, gay and lesbian people have long had a hard time and I see it as an issue of demonstrating solidarity with people who are widely discriminated against. I don't see why it's such a big deal.

I have she/her on my emails because I'm a woman/female/have periods/have a womb. I am a she. My workplace didn't tell me to. I did it because I don't want any misunderstanding about being a woman.

I can't quite work out how you think YOU are the victim of a religious dictatorship when youre the one deciding that someone else's identity doesn't exist.

Gender identity exists only in people’s imagination. Believing in it is a personal preference, like believing in horoscopes. The person exists, and no one denies this. Their sex is also real, expressed in every cell of their body, and is unchangeable in mammals. And their gender identity is as real as their favourite colour. They can change this, or stop believing in it, whenever they like. No one is disputing the existence of the person.

Calling someone TRA is a strike offence which Donut has done many times. I jabent reported her cause I'm not like that, but others would.

Again, reindeer,, if you look in your inbox, you know me!

Ooh you are hard. Report me to miss.

Crack on love. You are fooling nobody.

Okay. Well, cisgender being offensive is only in peoples imagination.

I dont, btw. But see where that gets us?