Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

Absolutely @AchatAVendre. No other country in the world seeks to replicate the NHS. We have a home in France. When we have needed healthcare there it has been head and shoulders above what is available in the UK.

From talking with colleagues pay is simply an excuse to allow them to strike. They are all very aware that the issue is not simply pay. Pay is a symptom of the much bigger issue.

I don't care about paying higher tax for a better health service. If we don't pay more tax, we'll all pay out of pocket for insurance. A friend in Switzerland, her insurance is twice her mortgage costs.

@AchatAVendre

Thanks for your post. I agree with some of your points.

However, 1) there is a lot of anti union rhetoric and comparison to the 70s in the media. I think similar myths and lies will spout when we ballot for industrial action. ‘Drinking in the staff room after work’ springs to mind. A lot of rail jobs are safety critical.(Many a patient of mines life has been saved by a rail worker) I believe rail workers to have valid jobs that deserve valid pay.

2. you say overpaid - have you considered that other industries could be grossly underpaid? I think your point about local councils perhaps proves this? Female dominated industries have long been undervalued and underpaid but I don’t begrudge a man fair pay just because I’m underpaid.

I have worked in the NHS for 18 years. I think the issue with the NHS is that it needs a massive, long over due shake up.
It is a bloated, wasteful entity. Far too many managers vs staff on the front line actually delivering patient care. And far, far too many ridiculous and unnecessary admin jobs. Im not taking about the band 3 ward clerks, im talking about the cottage industry of highly banded corporate admin roles in departments like HR, equality and diversity, organisational development...

But professional standards have also dropped on the wards. Nurses in particular often seem to have borderline contempt towards their patients and there's a general lack of courtesy. I think that's what people are referring to when they say bring back the matrons.

I think part of that is that many organisations have been campaigning for better more staff and resources for so long.

You can't strike for more resources, you can only strike for individual terms and conditions.

Let's face it, if nursing was properly resourced, most staff would be ok (ish) with the level of pay - everyone wants to be paid more by iMO, the issue of pay is more to do with the amount of unpaid overtime and demands which are a result of insufficient staff. But we can't strike for better nhs funding or resource. Personally, I do 10-15 hrs over my contract most weeks. The team I managed, probably do 4-8 hrs over time each every week (If I know about it, I ask for it to be paid, but it's often at home and not mentioned). And if I said to them - no more overtime, pay stays as it is because I've got another 4 RNs (20% increase) to the team, most would be relieved and probably not as worried about pay. But the are bothered about pay because the pressure and responsibility is huge.

Personally I think a stand has to be taken. It does really worry me - but my relative has shocking treatment anyway and is waiting and waiting and waiting for a procedure.

This willingness to lay down like doormats and take whatever shit the government throws at us is not getting us anywhere.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

Actually as an RMT member I have been pleasantly surprised by the amount of public support out there. You may be getting a skewed view of public opinion as older people are the main users of hospitals (hence you presumably see more of them than other age groups) and will remember the Seventies.

The French system is one of the best in the world. They pay a lot more towards it so it can do a lot more.

Absolute rubbish! Look at private social care for starters.

@LoudSnoringDog another here on mental health (inpatient) We are on our knees, it’s absolutely awful and with the sorry state of the world mental illness is just increasing 😢

@oldageprancer

How do you figure that?

Do you think nursing home staff are well paid and treated? What do you think their working conditions are like?

Psychiatric nurse you can get 200k in dollars in the US if you're highly qualified. Australia 90k in pounds. Nurses aren't valued in the UK for the responsibility they have.

The NHS is failing when it first started people weren't living for very long now people are living for much longer with multiple comorbidities. It wasn't designed for what it's expected to do.

While I agree with you ad have personal experience of how appalling it is, my friend in the States pays £500 a month for health insurance. We are quite lucky in this respect

@concernedrepurplehouse

What other methods do you suggest?
I have never voted conservative ever, I vote in every election.
I record every incident or near miss at work. I have escalated up the line more than once.
I have signed many petitions and been on many protests and marches.
I have contacted my MP - my home (Tory) MP told me the NHS is the best it’s ever been and I’m a flagrant labour supporter wasting his time.
NHS workers have spoke out on social media and in the media time and time again.
Patients are being failed. We of course know being paid more won’t fix this but at the movement patients are dying due to unsafe conditions.

@oldageprancer
England is semi privatised. It’s contributing to the problems. Outsourced and shite services costing more than the NHS would to provide them. The NHS being blamed for their failings.

The French system is extremely good. Expect to pay around £200 a month for private health insurance for someone in their fifties in average health for private insurance to allow you access to the French system if not eligible to join it.

Pay for specialist nurses is triple even quadruple what you get here so you are better off paying insurance. Contributions are tax deductible as well.

100% support you OP.

Just posted about the French system without reading your reply! Ditto! Its so much better, I've actually travelled all the way to France on occasion rather than using the NHS. The German and Swiss systems are also extremely good.

The government needs to subsidise nursing degree tuition fees (and I'm talking about paying for people to do these essential courses, not loaning them money to get themselves into debt for the pleasure of working)

This needs to happen urgently to fix the appalling and dangerous staffing levels while also recognising what a service nurses provide

And ofc the NHS needs proper funding and pay structures

I am so angry about how this incredible institution is taken for granted and is being absolutely crippled by the government

@DdraigGoch

thanks for your comment. I am so glad that I seem to have got it wrong / skewed. You make a good point, I come from a very anti union area which is always going to be biased and have an older patient group. Solidarity through the strikes 😊

The problem is that too often nurses don't behave professionally in the UK. I'd happily pay more for a system on a par with the French system. I will not pay more for the NHS until there is root and branch reform and the rot at its heart is addressed.

Actually, I'd rather die than ever attend my local hospital ever again.

So nurses should either leave for abroad or campaign for US style private healthcare. Go for it! Sounds like you would do much better under a privatised system, and maybe patients would do better too.

@Gakatsbsk Yes. Hard Yes. We’re complaining about the same thing.

my advice, not that you’re asking: make it clear.

@kagerou
an excellent point. I try to forget that I have £44,000 debt for the privilege of this