Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

I think GP services should also be completely changed.
Pharmacies could deal with a huge amount of minor stuff, bites, utis,minor injuries, ailments allowing GPs to deal with chronic and serious stuff.
Currently we have 10 minutes to deal with everything including cancer which is ridiculous.
Provide larger pharmacies with a minors unit so if you have a uti, infected toe you actually can just go and get treated THE SAME DAY.
Shouting because it shouldnt be the case that patients have to ring day after day to get treatment and be treated like they are a nuisance!

There's so many things we could do to improve the system without scrapping it that would be better value for money.

But the govt aren't actually interested in improving it.

They are to blame for how things are.

Don't forget she oversees a business with 300 staff and lives across the road from a surgeon :)

I have a lot of respect for NHS workers. We are living in a crisis, and it always seems to be brushed off. I finished watching “This is Going to Hurt” recently, and it really woke me up to just how overworked staff are.

Just an aside, @Junepassing many people don't like being addressed by their first name by strangers.

Them being in pain isn't an excuse to go ahead with the informality because you can get away with it.

It is a step up from 'mum' as you get used to being called by all the NHS when with your kids, so there's that I suppose.

I don’t mind a name but find ‘Mum’ a bit patronising but I guess it’s ease of habit

I’ve just had some small things to go to GP for and I’ve been really happy with the service, really pleasant nurses etc

There were a couple of tricky people who were getting irritated as they didn’t have a phone number or whatever and I do think staff can be up against it at times in terms of public demands, which is a pity as it sounds tough without extra stresses

We have private insurance and have used NHS and I think we have been lucky with the latter, with good experiences

I've been asked what I wanted to be called before now by a GP or medic or whoever it is. Is it ok to call you by your first name etc? I say yes and we all move on.
I can't see the problem with that.

@oldageprancer

I said usually. Everyone is entitled to be called what they want to be, but whenever I call a patient Mr or Mrs they usually ask me to please just call them by their first name/first name abbreviation/nickname : "Mr Smith is my father" etc. It often says on a patient's records now what name they prefer to be addressed by, but not always, and we still occasionally get it wrong. I try and ask what patient's prefer to be called, but my appointments are five minutes long . . and there are many of them!

@Junepassing @SeaWitchly thank you so much for your comments.

I am happy always for my first name to be used when the person introducing themselves invites me to use theirs. I do not welcome my first name being used by a person who introduces themselves with a title. It is reductive and it is an equality issue.

It is a step up from 'mum' as you get used to being called by all the NHS when with your kids, so there's that I suppose.

I'm a paramedic and I use 'mum' or 'dad', as the child is my patient, who I have only just met and am dealing with in an emergency situation, and whose name I prioritise remembering, I'm not concentrating on what the parents are called. Even if I did know the child's surname from the outset of the job (obviously not always the case in an emergency) using 'Mrs. Child's-Surname' or 'Mr Child's-surname' has a high chance of being incorrect and causing possible offence too.

I couldn't agree more OP- we know several doctors from EU countries who have returned to their home turf because they were getting abuse post Brexit. My H had to attend A&E last week during the night. He was utterly horrified . Not only was it heaving and understaffed, it was also extremely grubby

I always introduce myself by my first name rather than my title, although even if I didn't patients usually go ahead and call me by my first name anyway. Expecting them to call me Mrs Passing would be ridiculous when we are meant to be behaving in an approachable manner. It still strikes me as being an odd thing to get hung up on though, considering some of the horror stories we hear of some people's treatment under the NHS 😔

They either don't know or don't care until, as PP have said, they are directly affected by it.

Bring on a scheme such as France or Germany have. I also feel the NHS should be charging for some services in primary care/community care/secondary (DN visits, ear syringing, wound care, injections, physio) and, yes, means-test it or have it covered by a social insurance plan.

The NHS is not sustainable as it is.

French model. Interesting link.

about-france.com/health-care.htm

Beware stats are out of date.

Are you a Dr @Junepassing. In my experience it's Dr's who do the "hello Jane/Fred, I am Dr Soandso". When they do I usually extend my hand and say "I'm pleased to meet you, I didn't catch your first name" or "I'm pleased to meet you, actually I am Mrs Hellebores" Either version gets a muttered "oh er call me Paul" or an eyeroll. But the damage has been done, they have already made an assumption that the patient is the subordinate party and it is wrong. Similarly I have had a nurse call me Roses in front of a Dr they call Dr or Mr Jones. Does it not strike them that the patient is not and should never be subordinate to the Dr? It's not that I think I shoukd be called Mrs Hellebores, it's that I don't think another human should be afforded more courtesy than any other human.

I simply don't understand the patriarchal hierarchy. I call my solicitor and accountant their first names. Highly qualified people. Why are Dr's different? They are no more highly qualified and may well earn less. Ah, now let me see. I pay my solicitor and accountant directly and if they were as rude and/or patronising they wouldn't get paid would they.

@RosesAndHellebores

What a bizarre attitude you have.

Older people will die of neglect because they can’t get GP appointments. So they won’t get seen by a doctor and will ultimately die.

You can’t get blooody GP appointments anymore , atleast in the old fashioned way !

I was in A and E recently for an eye injury. I was in there for 6 hours altogether. There were people who had been there for 9 or 10 hours. The staff were bombarded with complaints and abuse- I wouldn’t have been surprised if they have just walked out.

I heard on the radio the other day that by 2030, 1 in 4 GP posts will be vacant. GPS are retiring or leaving the job and it will only get worse.
Very occasionally I want to see a GP. Not an emergency, but I want a mole or a lump checked.
Until a few years ago, I could ring my surgery on a Monday and get an appointment for a Wednesday or Thursday. Nothing life threatening- just wanted to get my problem looked at.
Now you have to call first thing in the morning for an emergency appointment and get triaged. I don’t have time to call at 8am and spend an hour on the phone. Who the bloody heck has time for that?
Plus if it was an emergency, surely I would go to A and E? Not spend hours trying to get though on a phone.
We also had a walk in clinic in our town. Now you can’t walk in- you have to book. Surely that defeats the object of having a walk in clinic?
When did things get so utterly broken. Sometimes I could cry about what’s happening with GPS and dentists in this count and. I’ve never known it like this.

It is very scary.
But why are we so short of Drs and why do they train so few up in this country? My stepson is doing medicine and it took him two attempts to get in. He was a straight A/A* student. Didn’t even get interviewed first time round.

I don't even like it when my children's friends call me by my first name! They don't know me well enough for that. My father even used to answer the phone with just his surname which is very old fashioned these days "Smith here". (He was a doctor).

It is very expensive to train doctors and they haev to be good so I suppose that's why it is hard to get into. We could insist they all work full time for at least 10 years after university. Part of the issues for the NHS and for self employed GPs is that if you earn enough part time to kep yourself why bother working full time? Most private sector employers do not let staff work part time and there is no legal right to work part time although you can make a "request" but not a demand for it. If the NHS moved to that that might help. Even if that meant more men not women who became doctors if people got more care that could be better although it pains me as a woman to write such a sexist thing particularly as a woman who has always worked full time even with two WEEK never mind month old babies.

Semperidem It hasnt registered with her yet that she insists on others calling her Mrs H but it's ok for her to call them by their first name, yet complains about THEIR attitude. Im beginning to think she might just be a mumsnet troll who is making her up, but, if she is real and this is indeed how she speaks to people and behaves it would explain why she thinks everyone is 'rude' to her in the healthcare system.

I've been amazed, it's extremely difficult to get in. My friend and her husband are consultants and they were also saying that it's not necessarily the A star students that will make the best doctors. I also know some very intelligent students that haven't had offers.

That said, I think it may not be as simple as just expanding numbers as it has to go all the way through their whole training. I'm sure I read on MN recently that there were over 700 (FY1 or something like that?) people with no work placements for the next year.

I'm not au fait with medical training but I gather it's quite a complex balancing act in terms of training the right number of doctors and part of the problem is the drop-out rates rather than perhaps not starting off with enough students.

As a teacher, I am 100% in support of industrial action in all sectors. Something has to change - and the anti-union rhetoric is as disgraceful as the “race to the bottom” mentality held by many small-minded people.

Ouch Xenia I feel your pain writing that!

the social care (bed blocking) angle is the bigger one so luckily your solution shouldn’t be necessary.