Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

@AchatAVendre

No it isn't 🤣🤣

Not in the context of a discussion forum.

You made a statement of fact. Its reasonable to question if it is actually a fact.

Products?
Seriously?

A caesarian section, after a complicated labour after a high risk pregnancy is a 'product'?

Privatisation of the mail service turned the Royal Mail into a financial liability as it had a duty to deliver mail to all parts of the UK, create, record and pass on all post codes, and still sell stamps - the private companies grabbed the most lucrative parts and left the Royal Mail a gutted husk.

Whenever privatisation is implemented, it turns into a free for all, with profitable portions swiped and the rump having to carry on with one hand tied behind its back.

Where will the training come from?

Doctors, nurses and midwives don't leave university fully qualified - they have to be trained, for years and pass more and further exams.

Poaching of staff will reduce the NHS to a skeletal health hazard.

The rainbow zebra crossing at our trust was paid for by the company with the contract for road markings, out of their own pocket. The lanyards have been donated (not by stonewall, we aren't associated with them) and we don't have pin badges.

@RosesAndHellebores id love to you where you have been to hospital. I’ve never known a more patient to nurse ratio except once in 10 years which was on a elective gynae ward 15 years ago.
As a patient as well as a nurse, I personally haven’t been happy to accept sub optimal standards? I don’t think of any person that has?
when you go to have an operation, do you expect to heal and recover or do you expect sub optimal standards and a half open wound. Rather a stupid comment that you have made if I’m honest!
Finally. Is your consultants secretary in the private sector by any chance. The many that I know have been working throughout the pandemic in the office!

*nurse to patient ratio

particularly because the NHS really sits alone as a national model of a healthcare provider and is an anomaly.

This is the critical point.

In the modern world, this model does not work or provide good patient outcomes so I have no idea idea why the British public cling to it. It is shit on almost every international measure.

It will also be impossible to fund in its current state, within just a few years.

Every time anybody mentions this the whole US crap it trotted out. Nobody would choose to implement a US style system because it costs a bomb and has terrible patient outcomes.

The systems in Australia, France, Germany etc have far superior patient outcomes and people are generally pretty happy with them and don't have to wait years to see the relevant consultant.

We don't have to reinvent the wheel here, just look around at what other countries with much better systems are doing (where everyone still gets the treatment they need and overall outcomes are better for everyone) and emulate that. It isn't rocket science. The people wedded to the NHS as some kind of national religion are to blame for these problems continuing.

Yanbu...i work in private healthcare and it is equally as shite staffing wise. Going bk to the nhs a biyt to escape from psychopath boss but looking for long term escape. Qualified a year.

what you describe OP sounds very unsafe. I wouldn’t blame you for striking under those conditions.

however it will differ trust to trust and while everywhere has its issues I don’t think that level of staffing is the norm everywhere. Unless our trust (which includes 2 acute and several community hospitals) is a real outlier.

On our ward yesterday (medically fit for discharge patients waiting for care/having rehab) there were 4 nurses, 5 HCAs, a sister, 5 therapy staff (OTs, physios and therapy assistants) and a doctor (we only get one as not an acute ward) for 24 patients. That was quite well staffed, but I’ve never known the unmanageable levels you describe on any ward in our hospital (or the community one I’ve worked in in the same trust).

maybe we’re just very lucky in our area, (we do have big over seas recruitment initiatives which does help keep staffing at a safe level). It’s a hard enough job when you’re not terribly short staffed. So can only imagine how truly awful and unsafe it must be in the conditions you describe.

I think most NHS staff would say the system is beyond flawed. It needs an overhaul. Unfortunately the Tories ARE making strident efforts to americanise the healthcare system here when it would be better looking into other healthcare options like Germany or Australia . That's what is so worrying. It can only mean a financial incentive given their favouring the grossly financially flawed US system.

i haven’t read the thread I can’t face some of the inevitable comments after yet another crappy shift and bad night sleep. But as a fellow NHS colleague I get you and support you.
Some won’t listen until they are personally negatively affected. But the NHS is the worse I’ve known in twenty years of employment.

We aren’t allowed lanyards and we’ve never received a badge! The rainbow was done by the council I think.

It’s not you OP. Both me and DH are NHS and the system is overwhelmed. The volume of patients coming to A&E is overwhelming. Self care is no existent and some people seem to think it’s a walk in and be completely cured service. Medicine rarely works like that, it takes time. The pressure is constant from the minute you walk in. I have never seen it this bad either. The thing is I totally get why patients and their relatives get annoyed but the abuse over something they don’t understand is upsetting. No one wants someone stuck in A&E for hours and hours, we need the space for all the new patients. Relatives keep interrupting staff, not once or twice but frequently and the complain that their loved one hasn’t had something, there’s no recognition that disturbing constantly affects patient care. A lady was asked to give the nurse 5 mins to prepare Iv fluids and she started shouting no one cares…she had only just left this particular patient. The hospital management expect so much on top. So many people are leaving. And I regularly want to cry for some of our patients at the futility of it all.

@bakedbeans London teaching hospitals. Once when ds was born on the post natal ward, admittedly Christmas Day, Boxing Day and 27th and the midwives still didn't want to be helpful rather than natter amongst themselves and once in an outpatient rheumatology dept where the staff were giving infusions - three staff; two patients- the entire hour I was there the staff complained very loudly about how over worked they were. Happy to pm the names of the hospitals.

@bakebeans oh and the Consultant's secretary is in the NHS. "Can you liaise with that with my secretary please, it might take a day or two to get through because they are all working from home and it's hit and miss".

I hope my answers satisfy you.

Where I live all the minor injuries units were closed during covid and never re-opened. Thousands of people now cannot access NHS dental care, and attend A&E with dental pain.

These factors must surely be contributing to the pressure on A&E departments? I feel for those of you who work in them.

@bakedbeans sub-optimal care - do I expect an open wound when I have an operation. No of course not. Neither do I expect inadequate pain relief and/or misdiagnosis - neither of which are infrequent in the NHS, both of which are sub-optimal. Before inferring people are stupid may I respectfully suggest that think about the subject matter before responding please.

I have re-read your post tagging me. You asked a lot of questions and not once was the word please used. That's a shame and I hope you use it in your hospital.

The people wedded to the NHS as some kind of national religion are to blame for these problems continuing

Absolutely agree EverySock

and rarely do they work for you the nhs or are a union rep (not anti union but the nhs being as it is keeps some political ambitions afloat)

we need to let it go patients and staff deserve better no one should be waiting in a&e for eight hours abs not be seen

and yes there is a number of staff who are very embedded in the nhs culture they have only worked for the nhs. We still have people working part time from home as they are too scared to work in the office 🙄 it’s absolutely ridiculous are they as efficient absolutely not we work as a team they are not team players so others ended up either
chasing them or doing their work. Unfortunately the NHS culture allows for slack staff performance

too many senior managers doing well I’m not sure at times apart from sitting in another meeting talking about strategies 🙄

I don't have anything pithy to add but I support you and your NHS colleagues 100%, inlcuding on strike action.

The people wedded to the NHS as some kind of national religion are to blame for these problems continuing
Totally agree but also those abusing it .
" I pay your wages, therefore do as I fucking say"
Pre covid
Families piling into ED, abusing staff, demanding food and drink.
Theft - Absolutely rife

The NHS is there to provide healthcare and I absolutely believe that people have the right to efficient, adequate and a respectful experience.

They dont have the right as relatives to shout, demand, steal things for themselves.
There is a hospital shop, drinks machines and free water in my Trust .
Still they try to steal their relatives food at meal times!
No Im not providing tea when I have a full ward to provide care to.
Oh those uncaring, nattering, rude nurses !
Translation
They didnt meet my demands, how dare they.
I cant wait for the NHS to go and all this to stop.

I support you and your colleagues, OP. I hope these is strike action.

The Tories have always been anti NHS and their divide & conquer tactics mean we are stuck with them for the foreseeable.

@EverySockIsOdd

The tories would choose an American style system. They want the least amount of public sector as possible. Nothing they've done indicates they want a European system

Chatting about something that isn't even being discussed as an option doesn't help now

I cant even imagine the logistics of changing from publicly funded to partly privatised. Without it ending in disaster.

When the obvious, easiest solution, is to properly fund the system we have.

It would cost people the same. It would cost less in the long run.