Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

I support you 100%. Thank you for all your hard work.

Dear @Gakatsbsk thank you for such a brilliant and heartfelt post.

Re the following: However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? I hear you loud and clear, although I think it's classic British dual thinking. We'll clap for you, we'll praise you to each other, but god forbid you dare to want better pay than me, because I work for £21k a year and I work bloody hard, so why should you have 'more' etc

Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers. I don't think the abuse will be as bad as the RMT, as many people believe (rightly or wrongly) that their pay levels and job security are already high.

I do think though that the classic British "you can be fine, but not more fine or better off than me" will rear its ugly head.

Sounds absolutely awful

i have a family member recently retired from NHS

they said a nurse used to be something to aspire to be and now it’s like churning out a process like battery hens.

I think it’s shocking what nurses get paid
at my place which is basically customer service/ contact centre starting salary is as much as a band 5. you don’t need any qualifications it’s not life or death you start at a set time end at a set time and there is monthly bonus
Team managers who can progress into that role after 1-2 years earn as much as a band 6 and by the time you get to my level after 4 years and at 32 I’m earning as much as a mid range band 7.

yes I have a degree- but In nothing related to my field and it’s not a pre-requisite for the job

no one will die if I make a mistake people don’t rely on me doing my job to ensure their security and health

honestly I feel for you and your colleagues sounds like the absolute trenches

My mum was recently in hospital. She said a lot of the staff seem to be desensitised to the point of being unfeeling because they are under that much relentless pressure it is the only way to cope.

She was shocked to see it, had no idea it was so bad. Neither did I, not really, until she told me about her experience.

She can fully understand why people are leaving their NHS careers in droves now.

I 100% support you OP

I support you too.

I do know how bad the NHS is, having had a relative in hospital recently, a friend in hospital recently and have a relative working in A&E.

I support teachers, doctors, barristers and the railway strikes. Strikes are sometimes needed when things have got really bad. Like now.

I have absolute admiration and respect for the work you do, and am disgusted at the low pay you receive. Nurses, and health assistants deserve a hell of lot more in terms
Of pay and benefit. Like a pre ious is yet said - many on a starting wage of a call centre operator etc - you are doing a relentless, sometimes dangerous, often unthankful role. Having needing the nhs and had many hospital stays over the past year, it's heartbreaking what you gave to go through. As well as no pay, paying to park etc , it's never ending. I just hope that it's recognised before you have to strike. I dohh in but it though under this government. Thank you for what you do

Yes this is what my relative witnessed too

I think you either shut the emotions down or lose your mind.

In answer to your question - yes a huge lot of people do - either because they work in NHS, work as stakeholders or are "service Users".

However ... framing questions that imply we/they are ignorant is stupid and does no one any favours in my honest opinion.

You won't be "roasted" but please raise your expectations and do not automatically assume that everyone is your enemy - it comes across as childish and divisive.

OP I think it's disgraceful the conditions you have to deal with and support you 100%. You all deserve far better- and people deserve a decent, functioning NHS. I don't blame the staff for the substandard care so many people receive. You are all doing your best and I don't know how you keep going. I hold my hands up now and say I couldn't do it.

This is a big concern when you think what happened at mid Staffs hospital. There they said the issues and deaths were caused , at least partly, by staff who’d stopped caring. People who are naturally uncaring don’t tend to train as nurses,etc but people are human and becoming desensitised, etc is a risk.

Thanks everyone for your responses so far, pleasantly uplifted.

@SavoirFlair Thanks for your reply, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I’ve heard before from many other jobs - TA, Aldi supervisor, bus driver and someone working in marketing that their jobs are the same / more stressful than mine so why should I earn more. Divide and rule seems to have worked very well. It is not a competition between jobs, all of which are probably underpaid/undervalued.

@SemperIdem I’m so sorry your mum experienced this. Just know the staff under it all really want to do a good job but are facing extreme stress and being actively obstructed by conditions. Ward nurses in all hospitals I’ve worked in fear for their registration every day. I fear for my registration when sent to a ward. We want better for our patients.

I'm a senior nurse in A&E, my shifts are 12hrs 15 mins and we get 1 30 min break in that time. This is legal because the paid working time is then under 12 hours so you only get a break for every 6 hours worked. It's exhausting

I hope (but know I will be hoping against reality ) that people realise that running down the NHS to the point of incompetence is a CONSERVATIVE ASPIRATION... when it gets so bad then the alternative 'private health' will seem a better option...

Already happening with GPS .. being bought up by American healthcare providers .. private health by the back door ... it's happening.

People are piling into hospitals, bed managers are shuffling patients around and nurses are trying to care for a tidal wave of people.

There used to be seasonal 'lulls' in the intensity, but it's simply not happening any more.

There's a coarsening of language, people are letting the little bits slide and nurses are trying to cope with one qualified nurse on a ward, trying to find a matron, any matron to report to.

Patients are more likely to fall through care gaps, leave without care plans and return to hospital as failed discharges as the admin staff can't cope either.

It's hideous.

I lasted two years…two years as a nurse, less than the time to train…post IV training it was constant, sometimes running between wards to do a second check, 13 hour shifts or week on week off nights, a 26 bed ward and myself and another nurse to do… ward round/pharmacy round/med check/iv check/squeeze in a planning meeting/hotbed..bed manager breathing down neck/actual medical emergencies/pissed off families
never mind the endless paperwork, chasing doctors, patient transport, discharge medication

i absolutely fucking hated it in my last few months having gone in with compassion, care and going the extra mile

Worked In the NHS for decades. For as long as I have been there have been overworked and understaffed. Unsafe ratios....standard.

I am afraid when I needed NHS support last year the nursing staff were yelling at polite and courteous patients in an entirely disproportionate manner. If they are graduate professionals they need to behave like professionals. When we eventually got to resuss there were more nurses than patients and they were all nattering about their breaks. It was inhumane.

I presently have 300 staff at risk of redundancy.

If there are issues in the NHS they are because patients for decades have been expected to express gratitude for suboptimal standards. This combined with CV building and a disingenuous approach to massage targets.

No I don't think you should strike. Professionals do not strike if that is what you want to be.

I do think the NHS is unfit for purpose and we need a Continental system of social insurance.

Vive la revolution.

PS: my consultant's secretary is still working from home. It took me two days to get a reply to a message and of course I couldn't be transferred because they are all working from home.

It's an utter fiasco. I didn't clap. Neither did the surgeon who lives opposite me.

I’m aware people are dying when they don’t need to due to shortage of staff

im also aware 17 August is crunch day

You have my 100% support and profound appreciation.
Thank you for everything you are doing.

I work in mental health care and agree with all of the above. I know I am burnt out because I just don’t feel like I can care anymore. I feel so sad for our patients but my compassion is eroded and I cannot provide an adequate standard of care based on our resources
I have 24 years till I can retire. I can’t continue with this

How could agencys and private work for into the NHS?

@crimesagainstwine thanks for your reply. I apologise that I came across that way.

I do not consider the entire general public my enemy but we do have a conservative government who have damaged the NHS tremendously (I am not pretending it was in fantastic condition in the first place). The conservative government was voted in multiple times.

My experience of the general public (which includes my patients, relatives, at social groups and friends and family ) has been 95% negative.

I am trying to not let this influence my opinion but it is very difficult. I hope this partly explains my mindset.

In terms of being childish - this is your opinion, I am happy to be considered childish. Divisive - yes - I come from an incredibly divided area (racism, homophobia, extreme deprivation etc) I am no more divisive than what I experience / have experienced - although I am trying to work on this. Ultimately, my views have been made more extreme by seeing so many patients suffer.

x

Yup I’m an NHS nurse of 14 years, currently top of band 6. Most of my nursing career has been spent in ICU, I’ve done all the extra ICU training/shift led throughout covid supporting so many untrained and junior staff. I’m now paid the same working 9-5 in an office role that quite frankly a trained monkey could do. It’s ridiculous, I’ve got a lot of experience and I loved ICU (and without being bigheaded-I was good at it.) However, I’m completely burnt out and seeing how the general public regard us and how our managers treat us made me think ‘sod you all, I’m getting a cushy job to get paid the same without the stress.’ Without being spoken to like shit by family members, without getting punched and kicked by withdrawing alcoholics or the IVDU that’s on a comedown. That’s without the constant frustration of no beds on the wards because social care is on its knees and flow through the hospital is non existent.

There is a lot of focus on the public misusing services and I do think that because we don’t remember a time without the nhs we are a bit entitled but 90% of the problem is years of underfunding. The government isn’t training enough staff or doing enough to retain them. Hospitals are out of date and there are not enough beds for the size of the population. We are not an attractive option for recruiting doctors from overseas compared to America/Canada/oz. Our waiting lists are enormous. Everything is struggling.

rant over, as you can imagine I will be voting to strike. I hope people support us.

this was 18 years ago but still…
drain care/management, wound care/dressings, completely random patients outside your knowledge…ahh surgical ward you need to take elderly patient with various highly contagious infections with various medical conditions…diabetic pump required, who has had a complete hip replacement who will try and throw themselves out of bed
😵‍💫