A question for the pro-life members of MN

[SemperIdem]

The biggest argument always boils down to “taking a life away, acting like God”.

So - how does IVF sit with you? Are you anti it, because it is “acting like God”. Are you for it because acting like God to create a life is somehow fine whereas taking one away is not?

Do you understand that many IVF pregnancies are high risk and may ultimately require medical management aka abortions?

I’m firmly pro science and think access to both abortions and IVF is a wonderful thing, for avoidance of doubt.

One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why.

No - this why we need:

1. Good access to sex education and reliable contraception
2. Support for pregnant women, but more importantly after birth too. In the US there is so little state support that remaining pregnant could be what tips you into homelessness and destitution.
3. Acess to abortion services as early as possible, with proper support in place to allow for informed decision making

I count myself as pro choice but the idea of abortion horrifies me. To me it's already a person, not a bunch of cells. I've actually had one for medical reasons and it haunts me that I had to do that. In my head I murdered my own child.

I also firmly believe that it's not my place to make this choice for another woman, regardless of how I feel about it.

The problem here is that there are so many genuine loonies dribbling firth about this that it can be very hard to work out when someone's not being serious. They may think they're being satirical or funny, but that works only as long as there aren't actually legions of dangerous, powerful, fundamentalist simpletons who really do argue and think this way.

Eventually, though, I think they do tend to jump the shark.

We disagree @mublma.

My belief system says that it isn’t a child until birth.

My belief system says that the woman has more rights than the zygote, embryo or foetus that is in her body.

My belief system does not belief in ‘judgement day’

*believe

An adverse prenatal environment (e.g., stress, malnutrition, substance exposure such as second hand smoke) and early environment (e.g., poverty, lack of food, abuse) has well documented, lifetime adverse effects on mental and physical health, educational, employment and judical outcomes.

Personally I'm praying for the US, and what will happen in 20 years time when a generation of these children forced to be born reach adulthood.

They are forcing women to remain pregnant and offering nothing in the way of proper support.

I'm baffled, you agree with my post (therefore understanding that remaining pregnant could cause a women to become destitute), and yet you still don't think they should be allowed to have one?

Madness.

@mublma - I'm really interested to understand why your religion is the only religion that counts? Do Jewish people need to repent for believing a woman has a right to an abortion?

What child?

Support is what is needed. I encourage you to look into financially supporting a women’s advocacy centre in America.

I already do. I also work in identifying factors that are protective during adversity in prenatal and early life @mublma

The point remains, that this support does not exist and yet you still think girls and women should be forced to remain pregnant.

I encourage you to really think about what you are saying.

It's not genuine, guys.

No point wondering why anyone would think this issue isn't serious and wants to drag it down like this. Plenty of people really do believe all the religious stuff as a reason to justify women's deaths, that's why it was so convincing at first. It's jumped the shark now, so just let it fizzle out until the next name change. We won't be waiting long.

Birth means that the foetus becomes independent of the woman’s body. It is no longer reliant on her to survive. It becomes an independent being. A woman is not an incubator.

@mublma

Whaaat?!

having a baby that you can’t or don’t want to care for is an “inconvenience”?!

Putting your body through pregnancy risking lifelong physical and mental health difficulties even death is an inconvenience?!

Putting your body through childbirth risking lifelong physical and mental health difficulties and trauma even death is an inconvenience?!

Having to look after a baby then a toddler then a child then a teen for 18 years of your life is an inconvenience?!

Saddling yourself with an abusive man if that is the babies father is an inconvenience?!

Having a life of poverty if you don’t have the means to care for a baby is an inconvenience?!

I cannot believe you work with abused and vulnerable women given you clearly have so little regard for women that you see THEM as an inconvenience! I mean they should sacrifice themselves entirely when they get pregnant right?! Those poor little innocent foetuses. Duck women! They should have kept their legs shut. Is that what you think? Cos that’s the message you’re giving

if I was a vulnerable and/or abused woman I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me

@mublma

yep womens right trump the unborns

soz

Good point.

I also don't think anyone genuinely religious would act in such an ungodly way.

It is pretty suitable

Because people are inconsistent and religion doesn't prevent that. In fact, I find organised religions to be more inconsistent than any other area of society.