Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A question for the pro-life members of MN

654 replies

SemperIdem · 28/06/2022 16:28

The biggest argument always boils down to “taking a life away, acting like God”.

So - how does IVF sit with you? Are you anti it, because it is “acting like God”. Are you for it because acting like God to create a life is somehow fine whereas taking one away is not?

Do you understand that many IVF pregnancies are high risk and may ultimately require medical management aka abortions?

I’m firmly pro science and think access to both abortions and IVF is a wonderful thing, for avoidance of doubt.

One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why.

OP posts:
mublma · 29/06/2022 13:03

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

mublma · 29/06/2022 13:04

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:05

Ah glad to see we're descending into hate speech now @mublma

Again - this is not acting in a godly way.

mublma · 29/06/2022 13:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

LynneBenfield · 29/06/2022 13:07

Okey-dokey.

As a woman, I believe that the most important thing is that women’s needs are met and their reproductive rights protected.

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Yes - that is your situation and your choice.

Personally I would rather priortise my actual children, keeping a roof over their heads and them in education and away from abusive situations, then remain pregnant and be faced with homelesness and destitution.

That is my choice.

Cartoonmom · 29/06/2022 13:08

@mublma - please support American charities as much as you like. But I can promise you no charity can even come close to addressing the oppressive effects women and low income families will face in a post Roe American.

Not to mention the secondary effects on the economy and people fleeing red states for blue states, which will only increase political and social tensions among Americans. We are barreling down a path to another civil war, and it's all because of the religious nut jobs on the Supreme Court who despite their legal education fail to grasp the basic concept of separation of church and state.

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:09

Well thank goodness for the banning of that particular troll

Horrid (and gave me the sense of being a stale, pale, male)

hyperbyke · 29/06/2022 13:10

Was reading this thread, went for a cup of tea, came back and half the posts are gone lol

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:10

hyperbyke · 29/06/2022 13:10

Was reading this thread, went for a cup of tea, came back and half the posts are gone lol

Honestly better for your blood pressure Grin

CapMarvel · 29/06/2022 13:12

@mublma

You get to hate abortion all you like. If the very idea of it offends you, then don't have one.

I, however, don't believe that life begins at conception. I don't place nearly as much value on the potential life a few cells may have as I do on a living, breathing woman who has thoughts, feelings and is the best place person to make a decision on what is right for her body and whether she can provide a safe, stable life for the potential baby.

What you are doing is saying that the life of any woman who gets pregnant doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if their health suffers, or if they are driven to seeking an unsafe abortion - which kills around 25 thousand women a year. All that matters is that you get to go around feeling warm and fuzzy about saving babies lives - not caring what happens to them after birth, of course.

25 thousand women dying because people like you seek to deny them access to proper medical care. That absolutely infuriates me - how can you live with that?

LuckySantangelo35 · 29/06/2022 13:12

What was @mublma saying?!

LynneBenfield · 29/06/2022 13:14

hyperbyke · 29/06/2022 13:10

Was reading this thread, went for a cup of tea, came back and half the posts are gone lol

Just imagine a fully paid up conservative Christian crank on the wind up and you’re half way there.

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:15

LuckySantangelo35 · 29/06/2022 13:12

What was @mublma saying?!

Various hateful opinions including that christianity is the only valid religion.

And lots of abortion disinformation, of course.

PollyPatella8 · 29/06/2022 13:16

ancientgran · 29/06/2022 08:40

Not all Catholics are the same. I could certainly name lots of Catholics who have used contraception for example, I could tell you priests who will give you absolution for using contraception, I know Catholics who most definitely aren't against IVF and I know Catholics who find abortion a difficult subject but who would support a woman making a choice.

The idea that 1.3bn Catholics all believe exactly the same thing is very strange to me. Catholic beliefs develop and change, when I was a child to eat meat on a Friday was unheard of but that has changed, if I wanted to take Communion I needed to fast from the night before, then it became 3 hrs, then it became 1 hr.
I loved the Latin Mass, it is rarely heard now. Walking into a Catholic church for a woman meant covering your head, to go into Mass without a hat/scarf or other covering was pretty well unthinkable but it isn't an issue now. I remember the first time I took communion from a married priest with his children kneeling beside me, it would have been unthinkable when I was growing up.

If Pope John XXIII had lived and continued the work of Vatican II and the commission he set up to study contraception then contraception might have been permitted in the Catholic church 50 years ago.

Like almost, probably every, demographic in the world there will be a variety of opinions.

Absolutely agree with Xenia here.

I am Catholic and wouldn't personally choose to have an abortion or use ivf but I don't think it is right to impose that choice on others. With IVF for example, there are lives created that wouldn't be there otherwise. And how does someone else judge accurately whether a woman is mentally strong enough to have a child or not? Is it morally better for a child to be born to a woman who is ill equipped to parent and the child is neglected or suffers violence all of its life and goes on to perpetrate violence?

I am uncomfortable with, for example, there apparently no longer being any people with Downs Syndrome in Iceland, because they have all been aborted.
That seems a bit too much like social cleansing to me (and before anyone asks no I didn't have any nuchal scans tests or amniocentesis tests when I was pregnant). But I made those choices myself because I have the means, family support and housing to be able to accommodate a child with a chromosomal disorder. I feel strongly that there should be more support for families with disabled children so they can make proper individual choices too. Ditto with euthanasia and people wishing to die with dignity. It worries me that euthanasia is a quicker fix than proper nursing provision.

I acknowledge there is an intellectual weakness in the argument that a new life is a foetus without individual legal rights when in the womb at 23 weeks and a baby with legal rights at 23 weeks if born. I can't explain that away.

If abortion is banned altogether though there will be what a priest friend of mine called "the double sin" of both mother and child dying having undergone a back street abortion. We know this happens. And it happens largely to women who come from the most deprived sections of society. Is that not morally wrong?

And as I grow older I have become more and more aware of the feminist aspects of this issue. I remember reading a report about Medicins San Frontiers carrying out treatment and abortions for women in rural poverty stricken areas of the Balkans, post war, where village patriarchs still ruled their particular "tribes". One women was suffering the effects of 47 pregnancies having been repeatedly raped by her husband and the village elders. Was it morally wrong that she was spared potential death by being allowed an abortion? I think not.

So yes, I am a Catholic (largely because of social justice issues) and pro-choice. To my mind, there are few fundamentalist or absolutist components about this issue. Like life itself it is full of uncertainty, , confusion, context, and nuance. And to my mind therefore, each individual women should have the right to make an individual moral choice.

LuckySantangelo35 · 29/06/2022 13:16

hepatocyte · 29/06/2022 13:15

Various hateful opinions including that christianity is the only valid religion.

And lots of abortion disinformation, of course.

urghh

Cartoonmom · 29/06/2022 13:24

Scary, but not surprising. We're noticing this a lot in my state - the religious right being infiltrated with neo nazis. There are people dressing up like nazis protesting outside abortion clinics.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 29/06/2022 13:27

Looks like you will be namechanging @mublma

LynneBenfield · 29/06/2022 13:31

Cartoonmom · 29/06/2022 13:24

Scary, but not surprising. We're noticing this a lot in my state - the religious right being infiltrated with neo nazis. There are people dressing up like nazis protesting outside abortion clinics.

Just what vulnerable women accessing healthcare services want to see. Nazis, graphic images and bible quotes. Disgusting individuals, they should be ashamed.

ReneBumsWombats · 29/06/2022 13:52

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 29/06/2022 13:27

Looks like you will be namechanging @mublma

Oh yeah, he'll be back. I wasn't expecting the banhammer but I guess it wasn't the first time. What a creep.

SexyLittleNosferatu · 29/06/2022 13:54

Oh yeah, he'll be back. I wasn't expecting the banhammer but I guess it wasn't the first time. What a creep

I hope he's praying for me right now.

ReneBumsWombats · 29/06/2022 13:57

SexyLittleNosferatu · 29/06/2022 13:54

Oh yeah, he'll be back. I wasn't expecting the banhammer but I guess it wasn't the first time. What a creep

I hope he's praying for me right now.

Well, sadly, he probably did just achieve the only orgasm he's ever had, so he probably is screaming "OH MY GOD!" in the darkness of his mum's basement.

hangonsnoopy · 29/06/2022 14:27

The point about Catholics is important. Being Catholic does not mean you have to restrict other women's access to abortion, and the vast majority of Catholics in the USA are not in favour of making abortion illegal according to polls.

Cartoonmom · 29/06/2022 15:08

@hangonsnoopy - I agree Catholics are not the problem in America re reproductive rights. The religious base driving these restrictions are evangelicals and extreme southern baptists, imo.

beachcitygirl · 29/06/2022 15:09

Great question OP.

My opinion. No one is suggesting abortion should be compulsory. If you don't want one, don't have one, but get to fucj with thinking you've a right to a say in anyone else's choices.

Keep your rosaries away from my ovaries & shove your sky fairy nonsense up your arse.

Swipe left for the next trending thread