A question for the pro-life members of MN

[SemperIdem]

The biggest argument always boils down to “taking a life away, acting like God”.

So - how does IVF sit with you? Are you anti it, because it is “acting like God”. Are you for it because acting like God to create a life is somehow fine whereas taking one away is not?

Do you understand that many IVF pregnancies are high risk and may ultimately require medical management aka abortions?

I’m firmly pro science and think access to both abortions and IVF is a wonderful thing, for avoidance of doubt.

One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why.

Exactly. They think it's a great talking point for the forced birth agenda. Nutters talking about 'healthy women' aborting 'healthy babies' at 40 weeks

If it doesn't happen, who cares if people don't agree with it? It's not anti-choice if nobody is even affected by it. Also, people who support abortion for more than half of a fetus' gestation aren't the ones taking women's rights away, your outrage is misplaced.

I don't see this as a main talking point, it's mostly mentioned when someone brings up absolute right 'for any reason, as late as wanted'. Most people know late abortions are for medical reasons, and are fine with that.

Yes, I don't know anyone who is pro-life that isn't also anti-IVF.

So your beliefs determine who has to have a child, die in a back alley or stay tied to an abuser, and now they determine who people actually are. What would the meek and mild Lamb say to that?

This is amazing. Is there anything you can't do?

I am not ashamed of myself because my faith is counted for righteousness.

That's convenient.

I, too, have a belief that I'm always in the right.

So what now?

I don't understand why that leads to a disbelief in hormonal contraception? There is no fertilisation if that sort of contraception is used.

People can believe what they want, but I’m not living my life in line with someone else’s religion.
Don’t like abortions, don’t get one. Mind your own uterus.

Nutters... why thank you...

The scenario is postulated because for some choice is choice.

Where do you want to deny me body autonomy? 40 weeks, 30?24?16?6?

That is all really off the point, but for what it's worth I think the issue is more that people doubt that he was the son of God, and that all the miracles etc attributed to him ever happened.

So you think better for a woman to suffer and die than have an abortion.

And you claim to have the moral highground.

The meek and mild lamb would say that it is better to hang a millstone around your neck than hurt one of these precious children (Matt 18:2)

Well, he and Matt were both free to keep all their pregnancies.

Why do women not count as precious children?

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What is your position in relation to abortions which have nothing to do with convenience, e.g. following rape, to preserve the woman's life, or to save the foetus from the process of birth followed by a painful and prolonged death process?

My beliefs do not dictate this, their actions do.

I'm sure you're not blaming rape or abuse or trafficking victims for getting pregnant. I'm sure you're not.

@BeyondMyWits I think my post was worded badly. I'm very much pro-choice and don't want to deny anyone their right to an abortion.

Ooh, you mean like through moralistic indoctrination?

@mublma an atheist is a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. So yes, I am an atheist.

I am secure in the belief that there isn't an old guy sitting on a cloud making decisions about what happens down here on planet Earth. I don't need to read the bible. Nor do I want to. You're being extremely pushy for someone who is so secure in your beliefs. Why do you feel the need to force others to believe the same things as you?

This is a really circular argument. The resurrection doesn't prove anything and there is no proof of the resurrection. (And even if there was, thats no reason to take other peoples bodily autonomy away)

But your beliefs are what forced them to it, because they can't do it safely. No woman does it like this if she can have it done properly?

How can you not understand that? How can you proclaim your virtuous preservation of life, then stand back, see this happen and blame it all on them?

Beliefs like yours are what have led to the abortion bans @mublma

Girls/women will be unable to access abortion services, or be so delayed that it becomes later into their pregnancy.

If unable to access abortion, they will be forced to undergo unsafe procedures (often coerced by family members, or due to risk of abuse or homicide) or abused by family members in an attempt to induce an abortion. This leads to the same result, but with trauma, medical complications and maternal death.

In what world is this the better option?

@mublma - what about religions that believe access to safe abortion is a religious right (e.g. Judaism)? Why does your religion trump all athiests, but other religious faiths as well.

Great @mublma

So you believe every girl and women should be able make a free informed choice about what to do if they are pregnant?