To think your life and achievements are treated as 'lesser than' when you don't have kids?

[josil]

It's true - can we accept and acknowledge these disgusting subliminal societal messages that MOST of us put out there.

Something very important to me is going on right now - one of the most important things my life for a while, but noone seems interested.

Unless it's a child's birthday or the birth of a child it appears...no one cares once you get to a certain age. Is this it forever? Unless my life is about a child noone will care?

I've had ENOUGH of feeling lesser than, because I decided not to procreate (or can't)

People need to really be much kinder and more sensitive to people that don't have kids whether it's choice or circumstance.

Parents, please stop being dicks to non parents and treating them like they're not as important as you. It sucks.

It’s true. At the Hay Festival a couple of weeks ago the founder of the Virago Press (?Carmen Cahlil) said “women are the people who have babies”. I thought ‘thanks, so I’m not even a woman now’.
I also attended a feminist event once when all the women banged on about having babies being the most important thing, I get it I really do but I felt so fucking second class and excluded. Without procreating we simply aren’t “women of worth”. I’m very happy, I’ve achieved loads but yes, without children it’s definitely true that I’m lesser and people assume it’s by choice and either judge or pity me accordingly.

Something very important to me is going on right now - one of the most important things my life for a while, but noone seems interested.

Could you give us a hint as to what it is?

I became pretty invisible when I had kids and I know a lot of women who feel the same.

People are often more forthcoming in celebrating children's achievements rather than the achievements of adults though, yes. Adults aren't always seen to need the same validation.

Not my experience. In fact almost the opposite. I hear of so and so's great achievements and I think 'but they don't have any kids'.
I think if YOU have kids you want to hear about other peoples, often as a comparison. If you DONT have kids you really don't care much about other kids achievements.

Not my experience at all in the Uk! In fact I grew up in a developing, pretty conservative country and even there women without kids are lauded for their achievements...

I think it might just be your circle.

I personally experienced the opposite. I became more invisible and any of my previous experiences seem to have become voided by either becoming a stay at home mum or being a middle aged woman. There seems to be a: ‘what could you possibly know’ kind of attitude. None of my skills or talents seem to be valued by society in general.

Is it because of my age? Is it because I am a mum? Is it because I am a woman? Is it a combination of all those factors.

However I am leaning towards age and being a woman. Because so many women once they hit middle age (unless they are lucky enough to look like a super model with incredible youthful looks and still look sexually appealing) seem to become invisible, undervalued.

Maybe you have experienced what you have experienced because of a misogynistic attitude of finding anything to excuse putting a woman down and treating her as lesser.

🤣🤣🤣 this is true

Can we be friends? 😀

I agree with Vionnet, going out to dinner with 4 friends, any achievement would be met with congratulations and then a swift move on to .... something funny, embarrassing, which Uni our dc are going to, etc.

Bad news OP, you've just had the realisation that all women come to eventually. No one gives a shit about your achievements. No matter what kind of woman you are you will always be wrong, until you get older and you are no longer just wrong but also invisible. It's not better for mothers either - all women are treated as second class citizens one way or another. I suggest feminism rather than turning on your friends.

This isn't to do with OP being childless. I think it's a bizarre thought from OP... do you not have childless friends?
Many people loose friends too once they become a mum especially if you are a younger mum.
Once the novelty wears off with your child not everyone bothers with your child some people don't have a huge circle for celebrations either.

This is really depressing and annoying in equal measure. I don't think it's a new thing, it's always been like this and judging by this it doesn't seem to have improved or look likely to any time soon. I'm an older woman with grown up children. In general society's attitudes towards women are not good. If you're lucky you'll have good supportive friends who get what a struggle it is to achieve something once you are older and have other stuff going on like children, a home and life in general. In truth women are not as supportive of other women as they should be and often older female family members don't do enough to encourage the younger women in their family.

You seem a bit down OP.

I am childfree by choice. I achieve quite a lot of the things I want to achieve because I have plenty of free time and cash due to not having children. I can concentrate fully on me and my well-being.

I don’t achieve because I want other people to celebrate me though, I do the things I do for my own satisfaction. Sometimes I listen politely to my brother bore on about his child’s dance show or football trophy, because that’s what aunties do. I also quietly think about how I’d rather be out climbing mountains on a Sunday morning than standing on grass watching the U10s league.

My friends with children sometimes express that they are a little jealous of how much free time I have. Sometimes I’m a little jealous of their gorgeous babies. Ultimately though, the grass is sometimes greener elsewhere and we’ve both made decisions about the lives we want to live.

I'm childfree and this has not been my experience at all. I really don't need people to be kinder and more sensitive towards me either, I'm not in need of any special consideration because I chose not to have children.

I don't think that this is in any way true.

It’s nothing to do with having children or not. It’s because everyone is inherently selfish and self interested and probably has something equally as important going on in their own lives that matters more to them, regardless of whether they have children or not.

A friend of mine has just gone on a three post rant over three days about how ignored and isolated she is and how everyone she has ever met is a terrible and selfish person for not acknowledging her problems. The irony was lost on her too.

I used to work in an environment where I looked after elderly people. Having worked there I can absolutely tell you that nobody cares that much about anyone.
I am not talking about the staff looking after the patients, I mean the lack of visitors.
Most people's lives in others are superficial.

I hope that's not true, I have a few close childless friends and my experience is that what they're doing is FAR more interesting than me! I also agree with some PP, when you have kids it's all anyone asks you about. You could have finished your PHD/ run an ironman and people would still ask about your kids.

It’s nothing to do with not having children. If anything having children makes a woman’s achievements even more invisible.

but also - when people are celebrating and congratulating on the birth of a baby it’s still very rarely about the woman herself. It’s about the new little human. Hopefully people were just as excited about your birth and achievements when you were small, maybe you don’t remember

This is not to do with being a mum...it's to be with being a woman full stop.

Except as a woman you could climb Everest, look after 5 kids, write a novel , clean like Mrs Hinch, but this is nothinh unless you lookat least 10 years younger( but not looking like you have had work done)! and like a goddess. That bar is high!

yup this is the truth! Xx

Nothing*

I agree. So much public discourse relating to women is about motherhood. The terms mother and woman are used as though they are interchangeable.

I’ve got friends without kids. I don’t think anything less of them.

You’re friends (with dc) have different priorities to you.

Congratulations on your life event, if major birthday, sporting achievement, accomplishment, or get well soon if you are experiencing ill health or I hope Things improve soon for you if you are experiencing trauma and upset.