To think people dont understand why there is a Barristers strike?

[jammywagonwheel]

Following an article about Criminal Barristers striking most of the readers comments seem to be about the fact some of them earn £64,000. The comments are mostly and that they are being entitled as they earn twicethe national wage and should not be paid more than a teacher. Newly qualified Barristers can earn as little as £12,000. I think people are failing to understand how difficult it is to recruit and retain Criminal Barristers when many will simply switch from Criminal law to private practice and the basis for our criminal justice system will be under under threat.

If the right to appropriate representation is no longer achieveable, what do we do?

AIBU to think most people dont undertand the impact this could have?

I was flabbergasted to discover that junior barristers , who work so very many hours, more than most, only earn , on average, £12,500 pa.

That's terrible!!!

I don't think that the public understands the difference between a criminal barrister ( state payed by a now, 40% decrease in legal aid) and a swanky defence barrister.

This needs explaining more.

@stayingpositiveifpossible I am sorry if I misunderstood your post. If you are against a defendant also having representation then you misunderstand the justice system. A properly defended trial prevents appeal and therefore in the bigger picture is in favour the victim.

I understand and I’m 100% behind them.

No of course I support also having representation!

Not rocket science is it! Innocent before being proven guilty and all that.

wires crossed willstar! we are in agreement!

@stayingpositiveifpossible sorry I misunderstood your post. It is a worry that the process is so combatative. I work with people in family law. I know I have had to remind our own legal team (who we instruct) that people may not have come across as well on the stand as in my reports because the whole process is terrifying for most people and they usually have a lot to loose.

@Ricardothesnowman its not illegal. That’s how salaries work

Barristers do a really important job. They have invested years and £ into their education. Barristers who work in the criminal justice system deserve fair pay.

I work in the criminal justice system and the barristers strike has my full support. They do such an incredibly important job and the legal aid reforms was an abomination. Yes, a well established barrister can pick and choose what jobs they do and earn a very decent salary. But we need the junior barristers to keep the system going - to do the bail applications and varies and POCA hearings etc that a senior barrister wouldn't touch with a barge poll. I know plenty that work double my working week and take home about the same as me as a paralegal.

Years ago I temped in a bank for a couple of months and remember dealing with a file from a junior barrister - she made less than my temp admin salary. She also had to have a huge overdraft because of the time it took to get paid, and like a previous poster mentioned, pay her tax. Her overdraft was three times her salary.

I don’t know any poor barristers. Or dentists or doctors struggling financially either.
maybe it’s just all about what you consider to not be enough money even when you’re more than comfortably off.

Unless you know a number of criminal legal aid barristers in the early years of their careers, your own personal circle is hardly a useful anecdote.

My friend is a criminal solicitor with 15 years experience. She earns…£34k. She does the job for the love of it but if she went into a different branch of law she could earn multiples of that. The whole system is so underfunded that it doesn’t really function properly. This should worry all of us: anyone could be accused of a crime or a victim of crime.

The problem is that society as a whole tends to think no one should earn more than a nurse. Without actually realising plenty of people do.

Why would anyone go into criminal law in future for such dismal money?

yes will star the process is terrifying you are right to point that out.

Really most standard people only need a solicitor/barrister with marriages, house sales and bereavements.

the rest often is unexpected and potentially alienating

The strange thing is doctors, lawyers, barristers, teachers, train drivers etc. These were typically your middle class professionals that would make up much of the Tory base. Instead, the Tory governments have spun these people as the enemy within (like they did the miners in the 80s) with the help of their friends in the press. Good luck getting people in all these professions voting Tory now. Instead the Tories are relying on the voters of either retirees or people from down-and-out working class towns who have no education because populism and Brexit.

It's gone upside down.

Sadly I wasnt on Legal Aid when I was forced into the court system (private family law so not a fat cats chance of legal aid despite me having no income at the time). Met 2 barristers - 1 fabulous, the other sadly not. The latter cost me and my DC years of stress and horror (and cost). The other's wonderful work was overturned by (yet again different) family courts in less than 3 years. All were paid for by me privately but recommended by solicitors. Both were paid similar but I had nowhere sensible where I (as a member of the public) could see reviews. A lot needs changing. I would have more sympathy if I could see that anyone in the legal professions was campaigning for change. And yes I have read the Secret Barrister. I hollow laughed because the solicitor fee of £250+vat per hour for very little constructive outcome is not value for money. Given the choice again I would always go for direct access barrister. Rather than solicitor.

The reporter on Breakfast this morning wasn't hugely sympathetic. Can't say I am either really.

You have to be smart to be a Barrister. Someone that clever wouldn't get into the job knowing that they'd be earning less than NMW for the first year unless there was a very good chance of earning much more money down the line.

‘How can anyone earn less than minimum wage? That's illegal’. They’re self-employed. What are they going to do, prosecute themselves?

Except for a huge number of people it’s more in the nature of a vocation than a career.

This is part of the reason I chose to do the LPC, rather than the BVC (as it was then), after the GDL.

A friend of mine did the BVC and was called to the criminal bar. She only survived due to her parents sending her money each month. In the end she left to go to work at the Financial Ombudsman and left law completely.

I'm not a rich lawyer (if only!), but at least my earnings are predictable and regular.

Yeah, my mate is a criminal barrister and she is the lowest earner out of our group of friends in our early 30s, which includes a teacher and an admin assistant.

The thing is, it’s hard to get media support as journalists are paid crap wages - minimum wage for a graduate and they’ll be expected to work unpaid overtime too so basically less than minimum wage. They gave no sympathy for anyone on 40k+ as regional editors are only on £28-35k. I left journalism for public sector PR.

Yanbu. The Tories have spent the past 12 years dismantling the fundamentals of the civilised society we used to take for granted. And most people seemingly couldn't give a toss.