The Abortion Overton window

[MrsTerryPratchett]

There's already been a few and there will be more.

Following the American decision regarding abortion, campaigners and trolls will be trying to move abortion provision in other counties, including the UK, into a 'debate'. Our right to safe, accessible, free healthcare isn't a debate. As soon as people start behaving as though essential healthcare for women is debatable, we are in a dangerous place.

Please consider, when opening threads about abortion at the moment, that the aim is to move the Overton window. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#:~:text=The%20Overton%20window%20is%20the,as%20the%20window%20of%20discourse

I'm not enabling voting because that would rather feed into my point.

It strikes me that you can’t take away with one hand and not give with the other. Women in USA really NEED to have access to cheap, readily available contraception regardless of health insurance status. It’s a no brainer.

It's a no brainer but if it were about babies lives the US would have universal healthcare, hugely subsidised day care / nurseries, mandated maternity leave. It's about power and control; the ins and outs of foetus or baby, bunch of cells vs a human life are largely redundant because again this is not about the wellbeing of women nor their offspring.

@Impier High as opposed to what? Something can’t just be high it has to be high compared to something else. If you look at data for global abortion rates, England and Wales – which is presumably what you’re referring to – indeed the whole of the UK seems well below average in terms of rates of abortion. It does not figure in tables that list the countries with the highest rates such as Russia nor does it quite make it into the countries with the lowest. In addition, there’s a wealth of evidence that shows that where women can’t get access to legal abortion the abortion rate doesn't go down, all that happens is that abortions are extremely likely to be unsafe procedures and/or women will resort to drastic, life-threatening measures.

Unsafe abortion is a leading cause of maternal mortality worldwide that’s not to mention the women who survive but have serious, long-term health issues – read Annie Ernaux’s book ‘The Happening’ if you need an example which describes her attempts to abort using knitting needles as a teenager in France before abortion was available, or talk to older women who remember what it was like in the days before abortion was legalised in England. Women like my gran who has lifelong medical issues stemming from repeatedly throwing herself down a flight of stairs after finding herself pregnant in an extremely abusive relationship.

It’s all broken isn’t it?
A country should be judged on how it takes care of the most vulnerable in society.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_These_Walls_Could_Talk

Yup! A complete bin fire.

"At 8 months abortion would only be an option to save the life of the mother. Abortion after 24 weeks isn’t a “trust the woman” thing under mainland U.K. law and never has been. After 24 weeks it is extremely limited and has to be authorised by two doctors."

Exactly, I think this is coming from posters who either don't understand the rules in the UK or are trying to scaremonger. Although there is never really a 'trust the woman' moment, abortion at any stage of a pregnancy has to be authorised by two doctors, and after 24 weeks only considered if:

• the woman's life is in danger
• there is a severe fetal abnormality
• the woman is at risk of grave physical and mental injury

So it isn't an Exactly abortion after 24 weeks can be carried out for a myriad of reasons. I don't class down syndrome as a severe fetal abnormality but a woman can abort at any time.

If doctors and the woman decide it is in the best interest they I trust them. It happens infrequently, it is not scaremongering to say that it does. And I support it.

As early as possible As late as necessary.

Only 0.1% of abortions are performed over 24 weeks. This includes those to save the life of the mother.

I asked if you were fine with sex-selective abortions, and you indicated that you were. You didn’t say that you only support it in certain countries.

If I misrepresented your view, I apologise, so will ask again. Do you support a woman’s right to have an abortion at eight months if she decides that she would like to, as she’s carrying a female?

And people like you who think an abortion on the way to the delivery room is acceptable are the reason that I am glad that the U.K. does not elect anyone like you to power.

You are arguing exactly that. You are arguing that any woman should have the right to abort up to and including the point that she in in labour.

Why are you now pretending otherwise? You are getting angry at anyone who disagrees that a 9 month termination should be legal.

And I believe that it’d be better to deliver the baby and euthanise the mother.

And you femme are demonstrating OP's actual point. So very clearly.

I guess we should thank you.

And I believe that it’d be better to deliver the baby and euthanise the mother.

Wow....

@FemmeNatal the issue I think is whilst the thought of a woman terminating on her way to the delivery room, or terminating due to sex is not great, the alternative to anything other than free choice full stop is limited choice and to me is a worse option.

I'm very glad that you are so happy to show your misogyny. It makes it much easier to ignore every single word from you.

I don't actively want abortions en route to delivery. Unlike you however, I TRUST WOMEN to choose. And therefore 'as late as necessary'.

It’s the option that we have in nearly every civilised country.

And fortunately that view will never become law here in the U.K., or any other civilised country. You can rage all you want, better people than you will not allow it.

You're just doing what I'm talking about. Fucking about with hypotheticals to distract from the actual issue. Women being denied the right to end pregnancy safely.

You'd rather talk about some incredibly unlikely scenario with a psychotic woman trying to end a pregnancy in labour. Demonstrating my point beautifully.

Yes

And many will die or suffer injuries at the hands of abusive partners trying to induce a miscarriage because abortion is now harder or impossible to access

If you want to reduce abortion rates then you need to improve sex education, access to contraception, and the circumstances into which girls/women are expected to bring children into the world.

The US appears to be doing none of these, and indeed many schools in red states are attempting to censor sex education classes in schools.

Whilst we’re discussing the matter of choice, and that it’s a woman’s right to choose right up to term, is anyone considering the process by which a late or term abortion is carried out. It’s brutal however you look at it.
Are people arguing that in theory it’s ok for a woman to choose this because we trust all women and that’s ok?

Where do you think the boundaries of the Overton window currently lie, among people in the UK?

Yes

I was going to caveat this with the reasons a woman is likely to choose a late term abortion, statistics etc, but would just be adding the issues OP is talking about

#ITrustWomen

As a 49 year old Gen Xer the reason i have the choices i have including being able to choose never to be a parent is because women of previous generations fought for it. Now Millenial women and the generations further down are going to have less rights than us Gen Xers did. NO I say NO!