Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

No, you THINK you know this. You'd look at my daughter and 'know' that there's no SEN issues. She doesn't have an ehcp, she's not disruptive, she's has good attendance, she's in the top sets etc. but she has crippling anxiety at times. She's the sort of child who would benefit massively from something like this. I highly doubt the school would just pick the 'favourites' without any justification.

I get it OP, my DS's first school was a tiny village school where everyone knew everyone else's business and the teaching staff were friends with many of the parents etc.

Lots of posters don't understand how these schools work because they have no experience of that kind of set up, living in urban areas with a choice of school etc. But it absolutely can be the case that as a parent you know exactly which child has special needs etc.

Is there any chance on a couple of the forest school days you can keep him off and take him for a day out instead? Might make a point at least.

Yabvu here, how on earth do you know about any issues that others in the class have.

Both my children have done forest school and the whole class has taken part every week, if only a select few had gone I'm fairly sure the rest of the parents would be up in arms.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. It doesn't matter even if these kids are SEN, free school meals, gifted academically , not gifted academically etc. Etc. The children left behind (rightly or wrongly) will feel punished and not know why whilst they watch a specially selected group of peers go off on a jolly whilst they sit at a desk and do maths. How would you feel if with no explanation a group of your Co workers were given an extra weeks annual leave a year?

@ladyvimes Gosh - you have put a lot of words into my mouth here!

I certainly don't begrudge anyone a go at FS My point is that is was always intended (from its origins in Scandinavian education) to be universal. The fact that it's not is a funding issue - and due to the bonkers demands of the NC.

If it has to be limited, this needs to be done with tact, and my point is: where children are in some way disadvantaged, these special extras are best done in school holidays for a number of obvious reasons.

It's totally disingenuous to expect youngsters to understand - especially when they're not allowed to know the rationale. And very naive to think that they and their parents won't question it.

As I said, I'm against 'special activities' in school time across the board - and Gifted and Talented is a particularly hurtful initiative, I think.

I knew how many SEN children were in both my dc’s classes. I was told by the teacher’s and also they were all sat at one group of tables so you could count who was in what group.

Why wouldn’t a SEN teacher tell you that information. It is also, in a lot of schools we visited for both primary and secondary given out as a number in schools and even broken down to year groups

In my last school it was the children with Pupil Premium that did Forest School. That’s how it was paid for.

my Current school doesn’t have forest school but the PP children do get to do some activities that simply aren’t offered to the other children. It’s one of the things that funding is for.

@CulturePigeon are you expecting the teachers/TAs to go with the children in the school holidays?

Do parents begrudge that some families get their school trips/residentials subsidised?

Red Helen - why does OP need to know or not know about 'issues in the class'? She's simply making the point that FS ought to be for everyone.

Some people are making out that it's bizarre behaviour for parents to question or speculate about the rationale for these decisions, taken by the school. What kind of schools have you experienced? Of course parents and children are very sensitive to this kind of thing - children come home and moan, and parents can't answer their questions. School obviously isn't going to explain, so of course it will become a contentious issue. I just don't know what planet some folk are on!

@Kennykenkencat don’t think I would want to send my child to a school that segregated SEN pupils like that. SEN pupils are not one homogeneous group, they all have different needs

Perhaps the OP could offer to help school fundraiser to cover for all pupils to be able to access it?

Or maybe all children could go but not have any school books because that is the stark choice many schools are having to make

I'm not sure if this is the same with all schools, but once you are on the PP register at mine, you don't come off, even if you win the lottery and end up living in a gigantic country estate. This is because evidence shows that even if a family has financial difficulties for a short time, the effects on a child's education can be long-term.

It would be the same for all schools but, presumably, OP has known the families since before the children started school, so knows that PP is unlikely to be the case.

I disagree that children won't be able to understand why some of their peers have separate activities. Part of parenting is supporting children through the realisation that life is unfair, for those disadvantaged; and teaching them to be aware of all their privileges, for those who have more opportunities.

Fab graphic, @Sirzy

I know pupils on PP that have very affluent parents. PP is not just for low income or SEN. It is for children who have EVER been “looked after” so children adopted through the state system for example. Also “service children” - even if the parent has now left the forces. Friends of mine adopted their daughter at six months old, they are very affluent and she is a very happy and well loved little 10 year old - gets PP though….

You can't be the only one who feels it is unfair, especially given the lack of transparency as to why some children are being given this and others are not. I would write to the chairman of the board of governors and encourage others to do the same.

As a parent you need to explain that many children don’t get given the opportunities at home that they do. These school trips might be the only activity these children ever do due to lack of money, neglect, etc.

Thats fine, if that’s the case. But as OP knows that isn’t the case, she can’t really explain it, can she.

That's ridiculous. My DS's pre school does forest school and only a limited number can go so they simply rotate it and every half term it changes.

I would not be happy with this. If it was an application process with a first come first serve principle I'd get it a bit more but they're literally just picking children and leaving others out.

No - not the way I'm imagining (something more like summer camp with professional FS leaders, play leaders etc). Yes, I know this is not the way things are done at present, but then so much needs to change in primary education for things like FS to have any effect.

In Scandinavian countries FS was intended as universal for all children up to 6/7 and they don't do formal education until much later than in the UK. By this, I mean that all their education takes place in a FS - not in a classroom at all, but outdoors. Obviously, what is done in this country is a far cry from the original idea, but - even a little FS is hugely beneficial. It would need a sea-change for this policy to be adopted in the UK - we tend to like our small children to sit down and start writing very early indeed - oh, and to be tested too.

I'm uneasy about selective activities in primary schools which everyone could enjoy unless done very tactfully indeed.

Put your question to the school in writing. That way you will get a reply in writing.

Makes it harder to be vague that way.

Out of interest, how much more does it cost? At my DCs school, all the class would go. The deputy head had training in forest schools so would accompany that class with the usual class teacher. They would take parent volunteers if any were available. The kids would go to a wooded area 10 minutes walk from the school. We live in a city with lots of little bits of woodland - is the cost about transportation to an appropriate place? I think DC’’s school wanted as many kids to go to justify the cost of the training.

I like this solution based idea! Could you approach the school on the basis of “the FS looks like a great activity. Can we help fundraise so the whole class gets a chance to try it?”

If they say no it’s specifically for that group, personally I’d interpret that as “this is a targeted intervention for the small group to achieve something specific for them” and then I’d look at doing something outside school that was similar with my child. Have you considered cubs / scouts, which can also be great for confidence building?

That said, your child sounds really unhappy at school and it appears the school are not engaged in making things better for him. I would really look into changing schools, perhaps to somewhere a bit bigger with more friendship options.

My DD's school did this. Only found out when upset DD started complaining that some of the kids get taken to trips, get baking lessons, playtime, etc. Then asked her who the kids are and found out that they are all with additional needs and very difficult home lives. Had a talk with my DD and she understood the reason behind it- although, was still jealous every week.