Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

But at the end of the day where is the funding going to come from? I am all for equality, however in reality that is impossible given how underfunded the education system is. These things are funded by PP, which I am assuming the OP's son doesnt recieve. Is it fair? probably not but the school does not have a magic money tree, so it is right that the most disadvantaged children benefit from this.

They had these types of things at my school which I wasnt entilted too, as a child it seemed unfair but as an adult I recognise that I had a fairly prileveged middle class upbringing so was far better off than the children from deprived backgrounds even without the odd activity provided by the school.

I would say it will definitely be the children who have Pupil Premium.
Sadly a lot of parents seem to have a stereotypical image in their minds when it comes to this.
It's not true in reality.

From an alternative persepctive, I'm happy to see that the forest school ethos has finally made it into mainstream education!

Much of what is considered progressive or best practice in modern nursery, primary and even secondary education spends decades incubating in the sort of alternative circles that mainstream parents like to sneer at. It's a process, a very slow process of assimilation and acceptance. Which will hopefully culminate in a universal embedded-in-nature experience as intended.

’Unprofessional’?! It would be gross misconduct to discuss a child’s SEND with another parent, small school or not. The fact that the OP has been ‘told by the sendco’ is either untrue or a serious confidentiality issue that needs reporting to the headteacher!

The senco has simply told OP there are 2 children with SEN. She has neither identified them or discussed them. Isn’t this information in the public domain - ofsted reports and the like? The school doesn’t actually seem to discuss anything; that’s why OP is perplexed and her DS upset.

Pp isn’t for Sen, my child is Sen with ehcp and doesn’t get pp, it only applies to Sen if they meet the same criteria as any other child

Schools have to show how pupil premium funding impacts their PP pupils. Certain PP funding is attached to the pupil other funding doesn’t have to be specifically used for PP children but much easier to demonstrate how it impacts them if not used across the whole school.

Schools have to continually show data for SEN pupils and PP pupils

I agree. At the school I know that does this it is for children who have SEN. I understand why my child may feel it is unfair but it is a good teachable moment re checking privilege and how sometimes people look like they're getting more than you but its because they need it and that's ok

At my children's school all the infant department get to go in 5 or 6 week blocks. It relies heavily on parent volunteers to make it work though.

I would ask the teacher about it. DS3 came home in year 2 saying how he hadn't been picked for reading club, when I asked the teacher explained it was to encourage reluctant readers and DS didn't need it.

We had this and it was the children who were sent and who constantly caused disruption in the class who were sent.
Unfortunately it didn't do a damn thing to stop issue's.
The help needed to go beyond that!

Ideally taught seperalty until they learned how to be in class, deep work with the parents so strategies followed through in both places.

(Dispatches)

@Wheelz46 I’m curious as to how no other parents know your DS has selective mutism? Kids talk about other kids and pretty quickly my DS with SM was known as “the boy who doesn’t talk”. It wasn’t mean it was just kids saying it as it is. It would also have been obvious to any parents whose house or party he went to (though I always let the parent know beforehand once we’d gone past the parents staying phase - as I did not want them to think he was being rude and to know he wouldn’t ask eg where toilet was so to know to tell him and give him opportunity to go).

I would reframe your question to the school, as a pp has said.

Ask ‘Forest School is an excellent initiative that I thoroughly support. What are the barriers to all children doing it - cost, staff, adult supporters, time, available areas and resources, transport - and how can I as a parent help the school to overcome these barriers to universal provision?’ Put the question in writing, and then see how you can help - could they take more children if you were able to accompany the group as a volunteer? Is it funding - can you fundraise?

How can they learn to be in a class if they’re taught separately? Also, who is providing that one-on-one teaching time?

@ladyvimes I agree with you! But that doesn't dispute the fact that it happens. It does still happen in some schools, and particularly small/rural ones.

'Twas ever the case, I recall 40+ years ago a girl saying that maybe she should be a pain in the arse then she could go sailing, climbing etc.! It was hard to get her to see the longer picture, that she would leave with something worthwhile to build her career on, oddly years later I met her at a teachers' conference!

It's tricky for school because when other parents complain they can't say , tom goes because he has behaviour issue's etc it's all private.

Like pp says why wasn't my child picked for readings club!!
Why does anyone think there is a reading club??
For Great readers??

As a parent I completely understand if you feel that your child misses out & sometimes the unfairness of it all.

But I was once that child, the rotary club offered a week long trip with canoeing, swimming and other activities, team building type exercises etc it would offer two places to each school for year 8 pupil. I was selected had an amazing week and opportunity /experiences. I vaguely remember a few kids being a upset and parents complaining. I wasn’t a naught child quite average and shy!
No one knew that is was being given to the children the school knew lived in a deprived area and wouldn’t necessarily be given those opportunities. I’m old now but that trip 30+ years ago I remember so well it really did change my life at the time. It was an experience my parents could never have given me.

You don’t always realise why a child gets the opportunities. I know as a parent it is hard sometimes when you see your child not picked but you won’t know the whole story.

My child was selected for this and I am extremely grateful that she was as she really benefitted from it. She has dyslexia, ADD and has always struggled with the social side of school. I am also a single parent so the school received additional pupil premium funding for her.

MajorCarolDanvers · Today 09:07
Put your question to the school in writing. That way you will get a reply in writing.

Makes it harder to be vague that way.

Seems like the best plan.

They do something a bit like this in DS's school, but not so obvious (not having to wear uniform). It's easy to do it subtly because different tranches of children are always going out of the room for phonics, maths, reading etc. Since all the pupils are elsewhere for chunks of time, it's not obvious that one lot are doing division and one lot are in the sensory garden.

It's annoying because you don't want to advertise it too much but at the same time the school can't say why because it's private.

I think it's safe to say however that there will be some reasons that don't mean the best , brightest, richest DC are being rewarded!

I don’t know how you’d know if families get pupil premium or not. My daughter gets and has no behavioural issues or additional needs, she gets it because her father is a solider. None of the other parents at school know what his job is.

it was the children who were sent and who constantly caused disruption in the class who were sent.
Unfortunately it didn't do a damn thing to stop issue's.

Well yes, it's not a magic wand and any good effects are unlikely to be seen in the short term. At least your children will have had a few peaceful afternoons.

The help needed to go beyond that!

Hopefully it did. But resources are short so maybe it didn't.

That's awful. My first question would be why can't a different set of children go every week

I am a Forest School leader and a class teacher. Believe me when I say, we would love all children to have the opportunity to have access to meaningful, well resourced Forest School. When done properly, it’s positive impact on all children, has been proven time and again.

However, there is no ring fenced funding for it. This means, unlike PE, the academy has to manage it’s own budget for it and make some really tough choices to offer it to all. So you end up with a system where some schools can offer it to all and others can only offer it to some. This year our school hasn’t managed to offer it to anyone.

Often when children are offered “Forest School”’it is actually outdoor learning, which isn’t the same at all. If a child is taking part in whole class sessions with two members of staff, the ratio is not at the correct level. Forest School has its own pedagogy. Outdoor learning is important but it doesn’t have the same targeted impact that FS can offer.

Sorry for the essay. I am passionate about it. I have seen children, who cannot access learning in the classroom environment, flourish. The impact of having their level of self esteem raised transfers directly into the classroom. Until it can be funded for all, offering it to those who struggle, can improve the learning environment for everyone, day to day.

If you want it to become a school priority you need to let the Head know and get other parents to do the same. Chances are it won’t make much of a difference, but it might help. Good luck.

I totally appreciate what other people are saying about maybe there are other factors why sone children were chosen rather than others.

I have to state though that deprivation is really not one of those factors. Maybe these children were the most consistent at doing homework, reading, etc. I can ask the school again and even try to help fundraise for the whole class to do the activities. Again, it's a very affluent school so I'm not sure funding is an issue.