Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

I'd be looking for a new school. Not because of the no access to the forest school but because the deputy/SENCO should not be telling you how many children have SEN in your child's class. Unprofessional.

Ridiculous. Forest School is absolutely for every child! It was never set up to be purely an extra for children with needs. It is just that often the children who benefit most are those who struggle in some way in the classroom, be it behaviour, confidence, learning styles, academically etc. So schools focus on these children, rather than making it a part of their whole school philosophy.

This gives all the info: forestschoolassociation.org/what-is-forest-school/

I can tell you absolutely there's no SEN and pupil premium for these pupils.

You've asked every parent whether their kids get PP?

SEN has nothing to do with PP.

I wouldn’t like to live in an area where everyone knows my business so intimately

What did the school do about the bullying? What are they doing about the anxiety?

Just want to say that I'm a teacher and at my previous school there were 3 children from EYFS-Y6 on the SEN register which was noted in the minutes for the governing body meetings (anonymously obviously but the parents knew who they were).

What was NOT noted was that in my class of 30 alone, I had 22 on the SEN "monitoring" list due to a range of things including emotional needs, suspected SEN, family circumstances, behaviour etc. gifted and talented were also on the list as needing "extra" because SEN isn't just about needing extra support to keep up, it's about tailoring learning to give the appropriate challenge.

So yes the SENCO may have told you that there are two SEN children in the whole school, however there's probably a lot more that she didn't tell you.

I'm a Forest School leader and I would like to correct the PP who said 'You do know that FS is only for children with SEN!' No, it emphatically isn't just for SEN. It's for all children (secondary too, ideally) but funding and the horrible, over-crowded, dead hand of the National Curriculum makes its implementation across the board impractical.

It's for everyone, and believe me, adults could benefit too.

I think a lot of posters are wilfully misinterpreting the OP's point and ascribing all kinds of mean motives to her.

I wonder if schools realise how damaging these selective activities are to children's self-esteem? Gifted and Talented...awful! And my children were in it. Do them in the holidays.

It's very hurtful to other children and the fact that no-one is allowed or supposed to know the selection criteria just makes it worse. Children don't understand why they can't take part in a fun activity and no-one will explain it to them. Sometimes I think schools are the worst of all for understanding how children's minds work.

100% this. If someone asked me which children would I like taken out of my class once a week, it would be the ones who cause the most disruption 😅

School is automatically not a level playing field for a lot of children. Because of things out of their control. Instead of seeing things like this as being unfair think of them as a way of levelling the playing field a bit.

some of the comments on here remind me of the parent who complained that my son got 1-1 and her child didn’t and how was the fair. Compel the ignoring the reason for him having the 1-1 in the first place

Sorry this is happening OP. I do not know why some other posters are accusing you of lying and being so unpleasant. Laughing as well. It’s just mean. I’m sorry your DS is being left out like this. Schools and teachers (like anyone else) can be cliquey and have favourites, and it’s terrible. I think I would move schools. If they haven’t helped your son, and do not offer opportunities around fairly, it sounds like a bad school. X

You have not said and if it gives away details, please don't be precise, but could you argue that the selection somehow favours boys or girls(whichever applies) or some other protected characteristic?

Most disruptive behaviour will be because of an unmet need.
look at your own dc have they ever had a tantrum in the middle of somewhere really inconvenient like a shop….probably tired, some kind of sensory reaction etc
these children who are disruptive will likely have a lot going on at home, parents are arguing/domestic violence/ abuse/ financially poor etc or could have an undiagnosed additional need.
Children are as complex as us adults, none of them wake up and think I’m going to be as annoying as possible to everyone today but Some children are not used to any interaction in their home life that isn’t shouting at them, when they come to school being disruptive is the only way they know how to receive attention, they often don’t know how to play and interact with others either!

Why? What happens if every parent does this? Everyone misses out because it'll be more hassle than it's worth.

Op is it possible that those who were selected were selected because they have already covered what is being taught at school at the time / it was felt those 'left behind' would benefit from smaller group class time. So from school perspective the split benefits both sets of children equally. But from kid perspective... It does feel like not the most fair / transparent set up which is bound to cause tension in a year 3 class!

You absolutely cannot tell who is on the PP register.

I'm not sure if this is the same with all schools, but once you are on the PP register at mine, you don't come off, even if you win the lottery and end up living in a gigantic country estate. This is because evidence shows that even if a family has financial difficulties for a short time, the effects on a child's education can be long-term.

Schools are given extra funding for children classes as pupil premium and have to report to the borough how they are spending that money specifically for those pupils. It’s likely the children doing this activity receive this funding and so it is part of their entitlement.

You have no idea about which children have SEND. Lots of children have needs that don’t qualify for a ta but still have specific needs.

You may have a local forest school running events during the summer holidays that you could sign your ds for.

Because these SEN or poor children will be disadvantaged throughout their life and miss out on experiences that other children/adults will get because they don’t have SEN or money.

I would move your child as fast as possible. If he’s a ‘shadow of his former self’ then he needs a new environment. It’s not going to change in this school and he is only young once. Give him a chance to be happier.

I imagine it's pupil premium funded so those children get to go.

It's difficult as lots of people don't have lots of spare cash and are just getting by, but don't qualify for any financial support. It's hard not to feel resentful sometimes.

This image shows why equality for all isn’t really equal

As a parent you need to explain that many children don’t get given the opportunities at home that they do. These school trips might be the only activity these children ever do due to lack of money, neglect, etc.
Im sure you take your children on outings or that they do extra curricular clubs but many pp children do not.
Why would you begrudge a child with additional needs extra experiences? As a forest school teacher yourself I don’t think you have any idea about many children’s home life or challenges!

School get more funding for some SEN pupils and PP pupils. Would you rather your child fell within one of those categories?

Some schools have managed their budgets/fundraising to afford Forest school. Others can only offer it based on the pupils additional funding. Some schools call activities Forest School even though technically it is not the actual scheme (they are not meant to do this). If your school has reasonable sized playing field they may have designated an area for Forest school and make this part of their curriculum

It is a shame if not all children get to try forest schools, as it is educational in itself and can enrich various parts of the school curriculum. Schools do not have the spare cash for pointless treats, though, and this school clearly doesn’t have the money or time to enable all children to benefit from forest schools.

The school has to have an educational justification that would satisfy Ofsted inspectors and the DfE, so the school will have reasons for picking the children it does that do not relate to whether the teacher likes them or not, and will have an educational purpose for what it is doing with the children who are not at forest schools. The OP hasn’t even said how well their child is doing academically. Is their child in one of the groups of children who ended up behind academically after the pandemic, or are they academically on track? SEN children are not the only children with extra needs - the national school led tutoring grant covers all children who fell behind in the pandemic. There are, basically, multiple possible reasons for different children having to be treated differently, but the OP only seems interested in the idea that forest schools is a treat or reward, which would be a ludicrous waste of money if it were.

As for cliquey schools, imvho, these are often schools with cliquey parents who gossip with each other and spread their nasty opinions around as fact, because they believe each other’s malicious gossip, whilst simultaneously assuming school staff are all liars. This sounds very much like the OP’s school. Where there is such a massive loss of faith in the school, this doesn’t seem like a tenable relationship- I think the OP should be looking around to see if there is an alternative school for her child, as she clearly has no trust in this one and is happy to believe parental gossip as gospel truth. Reality is likely to be more complex, but the damage has been done and trust is lost.

’Unprofessional’?! It would be gross misconduct to discuss a child’s SEND with another parent, small school or not. The fact that the OP has been ‘told by the sendco’ is either untrue or a serious confidentiality issue that needs reporting to the headteacher!

Sirzy · Today 08:18
School is automatically not a level playing field for a lot of children. Because of things out of their control. Instead of seeing things like this as being unfair think of them as a way of levelling the playing field a bit.

That seems reasonable and I’m sure no-one would begrudge children who have very little being given an extra treat. However OP knows her village, she knows the families in it and knows this simply isn’t the case.

Teachers do NOT choose children for this kind of thing because they like them best. This is such a tired argument.
The list will have been drawn up, with reference to set criteria- be that pupil premium, send etc- by the SLT and the teacher will have been informed.
You DO NOT know everyone's send details. You might THINK you do but you don't.