Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

@Eyelashesrgreat

its not about discretion - its maintaining the rights of the child. If the Senco did give you information she has committed an appalling breach of confidentially. Nor should parent helpers be gossiping about information they hear in the school office.
I would be raising a complaint if a Senco gave information out about my child.

I find it hard to believe that the OP knows the circumstance of every child, she probably think she does but its not the case.

I grew up rural, so yes at village schools you probably here more 'talk' about famiies (divorces, occupations of parents, friendship gossip etc) through the grapevine because everyone knows each other but not to this extent that you know the exact details of a child's life, especially when it comes to SEN with children or the income of families.

If it is true, then she has a bigger problem than the selection criteria for Forest School.

Parent volunteers should not be allowed in the staff room. There are quite often confidential conversations about pupils in there

Eyelashesrgreat · Today 09:56
@chipsnmayo I appreciate your discretion but everything is out in the open at our school. We meet outside of school sometimes too and then parents sometimes help out in the school office when it's busy so they hear information there.

In addition, children know quite a bit about each other. They go to each other’s houses; they chat. Then they talk to their parents. I only knew a few parents at DS’s school but I learned a fair bit from DS and he’s not even that talkative. I’m sure my friend with a more sociable DD learned a whole lot more.

There will be a very rigorous selection process for Forest school based on assessments. This is an intervention the same as extra reading or extra maths support. It will have to have impact that can be measured and is an expensive intervention to provide. The children are really not chosen based on who the teacher likes!

OP is getting a hard time here, and the amount of people who think they know more than OP about inclusion criteria at HER sons school is astounding. My child's friend was chosen - he is a very popular, confident, high achiever. Lovely kid. I have spent lots of time with him and am aware of his family circumstances. He belongs to clubs in his own time, and has lots of holidays and time out in the countryside, camping etc with his family. He will try anything and volunteers for everything. In my child's school it is a "reward" for model behaviour. Different schools can have different inclusion criteria. OP is not wrong for asking if her child could have the opportunity, if he has struggles of some sort and might benefit.

@CecilyP snd do you then pass that on to other parents? DS used to be able to tell me which table all the children were grouped on (I didn’t ask him for this info). Funnily enough I didn’t then stand at the school gates telling parents who were the children in the ‘bottom’ maths group.

This is why many schools refuse to have parent volunteers or if they do they don’t let them help in their child’s class

That’s a completely different thing to adults sharing confidential information from a workplace though.

Also, the UNCRC is very clear that children have a right to privacy, article 16:

www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UNCRC_summary-1_1.pdf

That’s a completely different thing to adults sharing confidential information from a workplace though.

Exactly. Of course children chat about their friends. The type of information handled within a school office is very very different, and it is concerning that anyone sees the two as equivalent.

This. I do not discuss my DS's multiple diagnoses with other parents. Except for the Tourettes (and only if asked) because it is very plain to see.

Truth is OP, you do not know what the true criteria is, other than that your child does not fit it.

celollies · Today 10:16
YABU sorry, these children have SEN and are going into alternative provision because they can’t cope in the classroom. sorry, these children have SEN and are going into alternative provision because they can’t cope in the classroom.

And you know that how? OPs whose child actually attend the school, justifiably does not believe that to be the case.

I would push for your child to have more support, but I think you're on a hiding to nothing to make a deal out of the forest school stuff. By all means use it as an example of what could help your son., but you have no right to the attendees information, regardless of how casual the school is. I live semi-rurally and I have had children in those kinds of schools, so I do know exactly what you mean.

I would assume the 2 with SEN would be EHCPs, the head of my son's former school certainly shared that, (and more) when we were having discussions. Even going into oh and 2 are MLD etc.

"I’m not a fan of the trend towards prioritising some children over others for things that seem like extra fun/a treat-"

In my experience people who think this sort of thing have no comprehension of the things that these children getting these "treats" miss out on every of day their lives. They only notice disadvantage when it is something their child isn't getting.

You don’t know what the other children need.

Neither do you, 5zeds. And you definitely don’t know if they need it any more than OPs child. I’d assume that OP knows more than you about the DC in her son’s school and the residents of her own village.

I understand that it's upsetting when your child doesn't get the same opportunity at school as some others, but if the students' SEN and Pupil Premium status is public then there is a lot more to be concerned about in the school's practices than this!

I think it's highly likely that this is an activity funded by PP money, which the school has to show is used for those students' benefit.

Maybe these children were the most consistent at doing homework, reading, etc

If this is correct ie higher attaining students were chosen then ‘best’ case scenario is that the school’s good intentions were to give the slightly academically behind children more time in the classroom in a smaller group.

Of course children will see not going as a punishment, but in light of the reduced schooling over the past two years the teachers view might be one of ‘the more teaching the better’.

Otherwise, it could be exactly as it was in my DC’s first school in which it was definitely the same children chosen over and over again for the fun bits or the main parts in class plays etc. Informally one of the teachers told me that they chose the kids whose parents who volunteered the most, were on the PTA etc as a way of saying thank you to the parents.

Fair? No definitely not. Shouldn’t be about parents at all or even kids doing well. Should be adopting a Rawlsian perspective and ought to be everyone taking turns.

I think some posters are confusing “learning outside for a day”, for a treat, or because your school is lucky enough to have access to land, with “Forest School”, which is a specific pedagogy and weekly therapeutic intervention for social and emotional needs, and involves a baseline assessment and reassessment after (usually) six weeks by trained staff.

I’m also stunned by some of the self and ignorant attitudes here to children with SEN. I feel like I’m reading a thread from 15 years ago. The assumption that children with SEN can’t be high ability, and making the comparison between children who have SEN and children who “can function” is disgusting.

@Eyelashesrgreat I have only read your own posts, not the responses, so apologies if this is redundant with what others have written.

You said that your child is not thriving in this school, and that this is not only about the Forest School. You also said you are thinking about moving your child to a different school.

If that is the case, then I think those are the only facts that matter right now, and find another, more suitable school for your child that is where all your attention and focus should go.

While the current school might or may not have good reasons for choosing whom they choose for this Forest School (to the exclusion of your child), it sounds as though you cannot change how they operate, and putting energy into finding out whether they are good or bad reasons will not help your child to thrive, whereas moving him to a more suitable school will help him.

We have similar at our school, it is for children who have suffered a significant bereavement (parent:/sibling) or other trauma in their home life. My child sadly is eligible. Please try to be grateful that your child does not fall into the group.

I agree with you because sadly often school don’t even know which students are having a difficult time. Children often go under the radar if they behave and try and work hard but can still be struggling significantly with SEN, family life etc. The money would be better spent on actual therapy and help for those who need it.

This sort of thing happens all the time IME. It’s really unfair

Complain. It's unacceptable. Children should take turns if the class needs to be small, but everyone should be selected at some point

OP If the SENCO has given out the information that you say she has, then she will be in serious trouble if someone reports it.

@5zeds It’s actually SEND, not SEN - and it is not only children on a school’s SEND register who may have additional needs. Pupil premium children are not automatically on the SEND register, but they are considered to have additional needs that justify extra funding. Do you think the OP’s child is on the school’s SEND register because she says he is anxious and being bullied? Do you think he is automatically on the register if he fell behind during lockdowns?