Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

I went to a bog standard state school in a fairly deprived area. I was on the MAGAT programme and we would sometimes get taken to activities other children didn't, largely because the majority of teacher time was spent dealing with difficult children, their parents, social workers even police and youth offending workers. So those of us who came from families who weren't well off but behaved, whose dads didn't come to parents' evening and threaten the English teacher, got our heads down and got on with the work, were largely ignored by necessity. The additional events were things like debate society at a local private school, trip to the local court to observe legal profession and magistrates, at gallery trips etc or they'd have guest teachers or lecturers come in and give us extra lessons after school or at lunchtimes. Cultural enrichment to say to us really, you can get out of this, look at the opportunities. I was head girl, did very well academically, was involved in sports and drama club etc, it probably would've looked like I was being chosen as a class pet too, but actually it was exhausting and stressful being in an environment that felt like lord of the flies on a daily basis. Where peers could only see the world on their doorstep and no further, where fights were common and people's parents went to prison on a fairly regular basis, those excursions and extra lessons gave me hope and sanity.

"The money would be better spent on actual therapy and help for those who need it."

Forest school can be therapy. Likewise equine therapy etc.

The highest achieving child in my class (scored 100% on all tests last week) is undergoing a diagnosis of autism, is on FSM, and has a seriously troubled family history. The second highest achieving also has serious SEN issues. The third highest lives in serious poverty.

Similar thing I my DC school. They select children with additional needs or that are struggling at home etc.

This is absurd. It's completely unfair on the other children, who would all get something out of this, to only provide it to a few. It's a different matter when a specific educational intervention group is provided (eg specific intensive phonics support to those who need it) as that isn't exactly a "treat" that they would all enjoy.

I'd be fuming if they offered this to only a few at my school

Yes the number in the whole school but no sendco would tell a parent the specific number of children with SEND in a specific class.

Had this some years ago at DS ‘s school. A group of children from a taken out to a local activity centre. I asked if the others would be given the same opportunity at at another time. I was told that was the intention . It never happened unsurprisingly. I was a teacher myself at the time (elsewhere) and I thought it stank. It was nothing to do with underprivilege or confidence boosting either.

I guess it depends on your idea of ‘fairness’. Is it fair that some children are born into homes with addiction issues? Is it fair that some children have sensory issues that make class setups difficult? Or are you assuming that every kid begins from the same starting point?

Sorry. A group of children from a sports team.

So ignorant! Why is it unfair on children with specific learning, behaviour or emotional needs to be given extra support? Our whole society supports those who are worse off or struggling, why not children in schools specifically?
What if your child developed additional needs? Would you not want them to receive support? School aren’t just about academics. By the grace of god and all that!!

Many children have Forest School or other alternative provisions written in their EHCPs /my plans to help them cope with school life. It is not always used as a treat but actually a way of getting them engaged with education

@ladyvimes you can’t possibly speak for all senco’s. There are some that absolutely would.

CecilyP snd do you then pass that on to other parents? DS used to be able to tell me which table all the children were grouped on (I didn’t ask him for this info). Funnily enough I didn’t then stand at the school gates telling parents who were the children in the ‘bottom’ maths group.

Actually no, there were only a couple school mums (excluding the mums in my flats) that I spoke to on a regular basis.

do you know what is really unfair? Children having to miss lots of school because of their illnesses. Children having to struggle in school day to day due to their special needs. Children having to watch parents die. Children being left out of things because of their disabilities.

if taking part in a forest group with a selected group of peers helps redress just a tiny bit of that balance then fantastic.

This happens in virtually every school at some level. It could be children with specific SEN who have targeted provision of funding. It could be pupil premium funding where children from deprived backgrounds are targeted with extra funding/provision because the research proves a very big equality gap. It could be they are pp because of ever 6. It could be that the school has select funding to support children who meet certain criteria.

Its not a case of every provision is for every child. The gap between pp children and those who aren’t is huge and widening every year.

You can tell who the Tory voters are on this thread.

I don’t think it’s odd to find this unfair. Lots of children get completely overlooked at school and this leads to their own “sinking” as time goes by.

Children in the categories described above: extra trips, things like Forest school, lots of small group activities and interventions, in many schools, lots of things given to distress (cards to leave the class etc)
Higher ability children: again lots of attention from extra small group times, always chosen to represent the school at events, chosen for sports events, probably get the better parts in plays, win the prizes etc.

Then you have this group in the middle who get none of the above. They’re not bright enough or well spoken enough or smart enough to be chosen to represent their school. They’re too shy to be given big parts. They’re just not quite fast enough to be chosen for sports. Too clever to have support in class but not clever enough to be spotted by the teacher and pushed. These children slip through the cracks way to often. Why can’t they go to Forest School?

If Forest School runs all year round, then it’s an activity where every child would benefit. Class should be split into 3 and a different group have it each term. No way is it fair that some children get to learn to build a campfire and do craft and have fun out in the woods while the rest are stuck inside doing comprehension. The benefits of Forest School are vast and it’s not just about helping children with SEN or behavioural needs. It gives children a chance to be children.

Im not against any program aimed at particular groups to help them flourish and achieve potential. Of course certain children need more things thrown at them.

But Forest School can have such a positive effect on everyone and this doesn’t sound fair. Life’s not fair, but this isn’t the same as giving everyone a medal for just turning up for Sports Day.

Yes, same here! It was called 'Life Skills' - they got to go out on trips every Friday while the rest of us were stuck in the classroom. How going to the zoo is a life skill I don't know...

This happens at our school. It's for the dc who have additional support needs, behaviour problems, traumatic experiences/chaotic home lives etc. Obviously we don't advertise this as it singles out those children. Be thankful your dc isn't among those who 'need' it

we run some forest school sessions for a local secondary school. Our funding comes directly from Natural England under a care funding option as part of our stewardship scheme, so the children who are selected need to be identified as having a particular need that this provision can provide.
We work with two small (6 child) groups, who each come every other week for around 10 sessions per group, starting after Christmas. They are year 7s who, throughout the earlier part of the school year, have been noticed as struggling with transition and also other issues such as needing more emotional support ?ASD /ADHD etc, and who may benefit from outdoor challenges. The choices are made by the school but discussed with us. We dont take children with extremely challenging behaviour, nor violence.
In the past we have had extra sessions funded by the school using pupil premium.
The work we do is quite special, as it follows forest school principles of being child led as opposed to many which are just 'activities and games in a woodland environment' hence the low child numbers. I doubt that the school could afford to send every child, even though I know every child would benefit, and so the selection criteria has to tick certain boxes.
Obviously I dont know if this is the same is OPs case - its hard to know. From the outside it can certainly look unfair, especially if the same children are attending more than once. If you feel strongly about it I would push for some more info regarding selection, and as a seperate issue, if you feel your DS needs extra support I would ask to speak to the SENCO about it and try to get something put in place.

@PestoPasghetti it’s life skills in that they use different methods of communication by being around new people, they have to self-regulate ie going to the toilet, they have to deal with a change in their daily routine, often including using public transport…loads and loads of things. Lucky old you that you can take all this stuff for granted!

It might be helpful to ask, OP, if only to put an end to this ridiculous and extremely repetitive speculation. Same things repeated over and over by different poster when you’ve already said it’s unlikely to be the case.

You could word it as your DS would love to attend forest school, what would he have to do to be added to the list?

There does seem ample reason to remove him from the school but it would still be a problem for the unselected children who remain.

I do loads of life skills stuff with my SEN child. Going to the zoo, off the top of my head;

• reading travel directions
• finding the correct coach
• managing to stay patient in the bus and to know when travel sickness tabs might be required
• standing in a queue
• identifying which ticket is required
• finding money and providing money for ticket
• understanding the instructions about feeding times and maps
• using map to self direct around
• exposure to a gift shop and being able to work out what to buy using pocket money
• listening to keeper talks
• understanding the need to accommodate other people who also wish to see the lions and not hogging the experience

All things my 12 year old still needs a very great deal of input into and help understanding.

It's been said before, but the people who don't 'get' why such things are required are truly the lucky ones. And they don't seem to 'get' that either.

Can I point out that in the circumstance the children attending the forest school don't have SEND.

They are not deprived.

They are not suffering with any illness. Their parents are not in the armed forces. They are not bereaved.

They are happy, popular, able children. This is why I've questioned the criteria.

As much as you insist you know the ins and outs of everyone’s life in the school I very much doubt you do!

You don’t know that though. You’re reading too much into the gossipy oddballs that sneak information out of the school.