Or am I just old and out of touch?

[snowdropsandcrocuses]

DD 15 has a group of friends consisting of all girls except one male. He's a lovely kid. I guess if I described him I would say good kid, loner, long hair, skinny. He's a nice boy but not particularly sociable.

So we're chatting about her friends and she says her male friend (we will call him Jack) is pansexual. I had to Google this to discover it meant he is attracted to both sexes. She then told me, in all seriousness, he is Aromantic.

I had to pause for a second and confirm she meant he does not like/do romance to which I got another honest, straight faced 'yes'

So wait, there is a 15 year old boy in your friendship group (all girls except him) that is attracted to both (all?) genders and is not interested in romance. In other words, he wants to shag but not date?

I swear I don't get it. She cannot see any irony in the term 'aromantic' for a teenage boy. And I want to stop the train and get off!

It's a fad. It will die down eventually. The more normalised this stuff becomes, the less exciting and fun it gets. There was a thread on here a couple of days ago linking an unbelievably narcissistic, rambling article by a trans person about how they'd decided they were, like, soooo over the whole pronouns thing. When it was new it used to make them feel special, but now that normal, middle-aged people just kindly but wearily ask you what your pronouns are, it's no fun any more. Just routine, not special or affirming,not shocking or challenging to the 'normies'. It made it so clear that this was what it was really about all along - affirmation of speshulness.

@AllAloneInThisHouse you separate out straight people from all other labels, but surely a lot of those labels would apply also to straight people? And if people say sexuality relates to gender rather than sex how does one even define 'straight'?

My otherwise very intelligent, graduate DD told me the other day that when " trans kids " who have been on puberty blockers then take cross sex hormones they go through the full puberty of the opposite sex.

Looked utterly shocked when I explained exactly what the full process of puberty is and why simply administering testosterone/ oestrogen on the opposite sex body doesn't switch it to the opposite sex. I have a biology degree but still!

She went very quiet afterwards. Hoping she may be experiencing peak trans about this. The misleading crap young people are fed is shameful.

My friends 10yo GD, yes TEN. Says things like this and if questioned they get the <eyeroll> & oh Grandma

we 're only in our 50's!!

Didn't pan sexual used to mean those people that fall in love with cars and marry the eiffel tower?

IcakethereforeIam · Yesterday 22:17
I think pan sexual means you'd shag males, female, non binary, transmen, transwomen, gender fluid, etc. Bi-sexual but spe-shull. But I always think aromatic means you've lost your sense of smell.

I read that as tradesmen. 😂😂

😀

Well, be usefull then.
Be understanding and supportive to these ”new labels” (these things have always existed, only now being more talked about).
Stop sneering and looking down on your nose, thinking you know everything, when clearly you don’t.
I mean help is most of these comments?

You’re not ‘old and out of touch’. These identity labels are filling the subculture void since ‘emo’ left 10 years ago, and nothing took its place. It’s the bee punk, goth etc. In 10 years time they will be looking back and cringing.

Or just maybe, just maybe if you read the actual definitions of each of these labels, you’ll see that you’re just putting things into boxes when reality it’s more fluid than that? There are labels that may be needed and then there are labels that are unnecessary.

For example:

• Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them.

• Most people become sexually attracted to someone after developing an emotional connection, that’s what most people do but apparently there needs to a label for that as though “heteronormative” individuals go around fancying people on sight.

• The “pansexual” label on the other hand might be more relevant because a pansexual person is not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity. This will therefore protect people who are on the LGB spectrum from being labeled as transphobic by saying they’re not pansexual. There have been situations where trans-person, usually transwoman, who have called lesbians “bigoted” just because these lesbians aren’t interested in these trans-woman.

• Then you have labels such as “gender-fluid”, “non-binary”, “aro-ace”, “aromantic”, “asexual” and you’re just confusing things with people don’t fancy people on sight, the players (men or women) who just want play around without having a romantic connection, people who change their mind on a daily basis on who or what they are attracted to etcetera.

• Greyromantic: You experience romantic attraction infrequently. Demiromantic: You experience romantic attraction infrequently and only after developing a strong emotional connection to someone. Heteroromantic: You're romantically attracted only to people of a gender different from your own.

• Gray asexuality, grey asexuality, or gray-sexuality is the spectrum between asexuality and sexuality. Individuals who identify with gray asexuality are referred to as being gray-A, gray ace, or grace, and make up what is referred to as the "ace umbrella"

Can you see how confusing all these labels are? And yes a lot of these definitions are copied from Google because there are so many labels that it’s hard to keep up these days.

All these thoughts, feelings and inclinations have some kind of label. It makes things more confusing. And whilst all these things are going on and people are creating and defining new labels, womenkind as a whole are not only being marginalised, we are labeled and relabelled without being always being included in part of the discussion. I don’t want to be a called “a cis-het woman” or a “uterus haver” or a “menstruator”. I also don’t feel comfortable with trans-woman or men dressed in drag doing “woman face” because it plays up to stereotypes. I’ve always been a tomboy, not really interested in feminine clothes, and I’ve only been attracted to people after getting to know them and so far in my life a lot of women I know are the same. This doesn’t make us “asexual”, or even “gender-fluid” because we don’t dress in a stereotypical way that the trans-movement and drag-women like to portray us as.

I do agree with this. I’ve been saying for a long time, when all this identity politics first started showing its ugly head, that despite arguing they (the younger than Boomer generations) didn’t want labels, they’re are in fact obsessed with them. Every feeling, every thought, every quirk has to have a label that they then define themselves by. It’s so destructive and so bad for your mental wellbeing. My advise would be Just live your life, just ‘be’, throw away the labels and free yourselves they’re unnecessary shackles.

This!

*new punk

This literally made me laugh out loud!!!!😂

Well they've got to be something because then they get one of these lovely flags to help describe their personality innate gender identity.

If you don't have shiny exciting gender identity then you're boring old cis, with a grey flag to match. Who would want to be that?!

(I can't believe people are taking this nonsense seriously.)

Pan sexual means you love the person regardless of gender/identity

@curlymam But if you'd not spent your teenage years confused and upset about that, it would have been something else. Teenagers by their very nature are confused and upset! They spend their lives trying to fit in but also trying to be individual whilst trying to pave their way in an increasingly scary world with hormone raging as their puberty settles down. I don't know a single person who went through their teenage years feeling' normal' therefore we all probably were.

Isn't is possible that you were in fact a completely normal teenager, and lots of other teenagers despite what they probably bragged about were the same and didn't feel sexual attraction?

Sexuality and sexual attraction is pushed on people so much, that it's become the expected norm. To give it a label just means that others who might not feel that way will feel as alienated as you did.

Also, the label you've given yourself is pretty awful as 'Demi' implies half or inferior. Does this mean you think you're inferior or only half sexual because the only bloke you fancy is your partner? I truly hope not, you deserve better than that.

she understood that for some of those children they were genuinely struggling with this issue but mostly she thinks it’s a fashion.

I was encouraged that she expressed that view but also worried that if she voices it in some contexts she’ll be dismissed as a TERF and accused of transphobia.
@Picoloangel I think this is a factor that some people on here don't want to admit or haven't had their eyes open to yet. There's also a trend to be the world's number one victim at the moment. This is happening from a very young age. It's becoming a societal norm. Before anyone nit picks I'm not referring to genuine cases.
The problem with having labels for labels is that you run the risk of using them incorrectly and then it's time for character assassination no matter how accepting you are.

What I don't get is, why does anyone need to know? As long as it's legal who cares what sexual interests other people have? Why this need for everyone to be 'Proud' about it and share loudly and ad nauseum with all and sundry?! That's the oddest part to me.
@PestoPasghetti Exactly. There's a fierce fight going on with people. Not for acceptance, for attention.
One of my close friends was like that. Came out when we were in school. Had only committed female relationships for almost 20 years until she married a man.

If a 15yo has the self awareness to be open about the fact they don’t want romantic relationships, good for them. It’s a hell of a lot more honest than the behaviour you constantly see from adults.
@nahnothanks the point being raised is that two conflicting statements were made about his sexuality. He's romantically attracted to both sexes, but isn't interested romantically. You wouldn't say you're straight and gay. I wouldn't put that down to having self awareness. It sounds like a child trying to navigate who they are, feeling like they have to label themself without really knowing. It must put a lot of pressure on.

This!!!!!

Seasoned with aromantic spices, thyme, rosemary, lavender? 🌿🧄🪴🍵😹

Yes, so this label is just a way of legitimizing a guy who likes shagging around, but he can’t be criticized for hurting or using women as that is his ‘identity’. Shagging around is no longer something he does but something he is which cannot be critiqued or questioned. Right.

This is no different from the bigoted argument that gay people shouldn’t be out because people shouldn’t want to know or care.

It’s you who seem to be doing most of the sneering, tbh.

If these microlabels are all so necessary, why have they only been invented on tumblr in the last five years?

This is an entirely internet manufactured trend, quite separate from being gay or bi, and it isn’t actually very healthy to be obsessing about labelling yourself all the time. I know a fair few young people for whom it causes great anxiety and mental health distress around constant self-examination and trying to fit in; whose labels and pronouns change all the time and who seem exhausted by it all.

And really, it is quite silly to call oneself “catgender” or whatever, isn’t it (and I do know a couple of young women who do). I’ve seen lots of microlabels that genuinely are a bit ridiculous - anime related for example, or silly stuff like “Neptunian” - which have been thought up on the internet by teenagers and really have no relationship whatsoever to the experiences of people who have struggled with marginalised sexualities. (Some might in fact find it quite offensive; these are for the great part not kids who have ever experienced any actual real social marginalisation about their sexual identity, and it’s also trivialising and reducing actual oppression to play at it with microlabels, no?) But it’s not “sneering” to have a bit of amused perspective about what is a teenage fad for things that older people have a bit more life experience about.

Yes.
Now, how about you?

@MattDillonsEyebrows I understand what you're saying but it's not something I've grown out of as I've gotten older and (hopefully) wiser. I still only feel sexual attraction towards DH. If a new guy started in the office and I wanted to jump his bones then obviously I'd re-evaluate, but with all the information I have this is who I am.
I think some of the confusion comes from people's understanding of sexual attraction in this context. It's not just I don't want to have sex with strangers, it's that I literally don't feel anything for anyone. No twinges, no butterflies, never horny, no thoughts of that guy from Bridgerton when I'm alone. I genuinely found it quite frightening.