Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

That's a great way of expressing it.

Op I'd also say U.K.
If you'd said California, Washington State, the nice bits of the north/east coast, I'd have said yay go for it. Amazing scenery, more liberal feel, often great schools in pretty towns. Give it a go BUT
Florida? Don't know all of it but enough to know there's some serious problems there so it would be a no from me.

yes @Wallaw. I have been here nearly 30 years and have never seen a gun outside of the holster of a police officer. Neither have my 3 children. But I wouldn't live in Florida if you paid me. Worst of america right now - well excepting all the other red states like Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas etc where I also would never consider living.

Funnily enough as someone born in Ireland I see way more similarities between UK and USA than I do between Ireland or other European countries and USA.

It would be Florida
Not a fucking chance I'd live in Florida. Nope. Decision would be easy.

Psst… it’s been legal in most of America forever to carry handguns. It’s just been clarified that that NY laws were too restrictive.

@Mixedfeelings89 one thing I would look into is the schools in Florida. When I was young there was a sort period where my parents were thinking of moving to to Florida. One of the things they clearly stated in the discussion was that it would mean private school, because the public schools weren’t great. (20+) years ago.

to be fair you would be moving to a state that would have a very high culture shock from what I’m assuming you are used to. That doesn’t mean things are bad there it’s just going to be really different.

If I’m honest I wouldn’t move to Florida, and the main reason is the weather. I can’t take the heat.

You also have to evaluate the city and are you would be moving too. England is about 80% of the size of Florida. I’m sure if an American asked you if they should move to England your answer would be ‘It depends where exactly you would be living’

Now for the other stuff you will be scared with on this site…

1. yes we have guns here. It’s a non-issue in your day to day life - clearly the internet and tv will tell you otherwise.


2. Health insurance… you will need a good policy as part of the benefits package. I paid about $100 out of pocket for healthcare yearly. (I pay about $200ish biweekly before taxes and my employer pays the rest) With that I can choose from just about any doctor I want, including specialists, with no referrals needed. If I go the ER it’s $100 unless I’m admitted to the hospital. (Some policies don’t have that copay but it is pretty standard). I don’t go to the doctor often, the last time I went I had an appointment in 2 days with a GP and 4 days with a specialist. My husband had an appointment within 2 weeks with an orthopedic specialist and knee surgery in 2 weeks (both non-emergency).


3. Yes driving everywhere is standard outside of a few places.


4. Yes you can find real cheese here if you stay out of the convenience aisle in the store.


5. Yes portions are big - nobody forces you to clean your plate.


6. Yes vacations are generally shorter here. But it’s a 3 month school break for students in the summer. More things for short weekends away. More things to do close by that doesn’t require taking time off


7. From what I gather (and remember) it’s cheaper living day to day

I’ll be happy to answer any questions you might have. But keep in mind I live in a different part of the country so can’t speak specifically to Florida (unless someone says they are currently living in Florida take their information with a grain of salt)

If you’re married to an American presumably you know more about the place than the average MNer whose experience is the UK media with scare stories of guns, healthcare and other exaggerations. You will also be aware that the US is made of 50 states which are as different from each as countries in Europe are, if not more so.

I can’t imagine living anywhere other than the US. I love living here (and I get 5 weeks annual leave, plus public holidays, company-paid healthcare and I understand and respect the second amendment). My life here on the west coast is about as different from that of someone in New York or Chicago as life in Scotland is from life in Greece, for example.

Get your IR-1 and try it out for a while when the children are young. If it doesn’t suit you (and it’s not for everyone) go back to the UK.

I’m surprised you’re asking opinions on such a huge decision of a group of people who, for the most part, have no clue what life is like here. Even those who go to Florida every year and think they are the experts on all things American because they’ve been to a Walmart and maybe tried root beer have no idea what it’s like to live here.

Join an expats forum and get input from those who actually have a clue.

The only plus I can see for the US (having spent time in both countries) is that there are more places with nice weather/climates than the UK, which tends to be a bit rain-sodden.

The UK has a lot of issues and is a substandard country, but the US seems to be falling apart these days. Big rises in crime, antisocial behavior, homicides, and even drink-driving and traffic fatalities. Life expectancy is poor by OECD standards, there are big rises in opiate overdoses and drug deaths, obesity is even worse than the UK, and people's diets seem worse than ever. The country seems to be losing the ability to live together in a civilized way.

The extreme car dependence (so many places have no pavements, no public transport at all) of most family-oriented places in the US is just awful, and would be a massive deal breaker for me in terms of living with a child. It's developmentally so stifling for older kids and teenagers to have to be wheeled around absolutely everywhere by their parents, and a huge burden on mothers. And don't even get me started on how physically unhealthy and environmentally irresponsible it all is. Everyone I know who moved to the US has gained weight, often after a lifetime of being slim. Yet the few walkable places with good public transit in the US tend to be either too chichi and overpriced for families, or dangerous with terrible public schools.

US schools generally seem worse than English ones. They were closed for insane amounts of time (18 months or so!) in Democratic voting areas, resulting in huge learning losses that are causing further problems in schools that were already pretty bad. Places like Florida did better in this regard, but then you're back to redneck-land of Trump voters with guns and huge pickup trucks.

I am American and have always lived in the US. I have lived in 4 states and worked in many more. Your own experience with the racism in the area of Florida where you would live is enough to say no to raising children there. I also find the weather miserable for a large part of the year.

There are many lovely places to live in the US. That’s clearly not one.

Lived in England for 15 years, moved back to us where I grew up. 1 DC. We chose US, for me it was quality of life, if we’d stayed in the UK we would have been in London, both with long commutes and small living space or VERY long commutes and bigger house. Access to the outdoors is really important to me and it’s just not available in the same way in the UK. You can go on walks or whatever but it is NOT the same as driving an hour and being able to hike into true wilderness or ski, kayak etc which is all possible where I live.

there are a lot of really concerning issues on a national level but so many things are determined by the states and the state I’m from is very liberal.

We are both high earners, both with six figure salaries and husband works in tech so we were virtually guaranteed good jobs, we’ve also both made choices to take lower paying jobs and prioritize jobs with good work life balance (both have permanent option to WFH and our full time jobs only take 25-30 hours/week). We have excellent healthcare because of our good jobs. I grew up in a very well off family in a very well off area and if I’m honest I have no real understanding of what it would be like to be poor or even lower middle class in either country. Our quality of life is undeniably higher here in our income bracket.

I am concerned about the direction of the UK, long term productivity not increasing, NHS is struggling, I would be increasingly hesitant to rely on it if I had other options. Boris… at least we didn’t follow Trump with more Trump… Brexit… the UK is in for continued long term fiscal decline and that will continue to impact quality of life for everyone but most likely the poorest will suffer the most.

Guns did give me enormous pause when we moved, but also still SO unlikely to impact us as we do not socialize with anyone who would ever have a gun and my state has restrictive laws.

Even though I’ve never lived outside of the US I think this is a pretty fair general statement.

I also think you should stay closest to whichever family relationships provide the most enjoyment for you all.

I'm in the US, in California. We moved back to the UK when we had kids but ended up hating it, especially the schooling which seems to be really inflexible. We moved back to the US when the kids were in primary.

I do think the weather can help make for a great lifestyle and that may be true in Florida too. Neither the US nor the UK do great on kids happiness and wellbeing outcomes compared to other OECD countries, but the US does tend to just pip the UK and one thing I really notice is that kids aren't disliked and considered a nuisance in the US the way they are in the UK.

However, we're well off. Can afford to live in one of the more expensive places, can get them into good schools where we don't worry about guns, have good health care and vacations. We also had a significant support network from when we lived here before.

I think it's worth considering. Many people love it (including me!). Americans are generally more positive and outgoing than Brits and that can be addictive without you even realising it. If you do find somethings about the US attractive and decide to try, you need to plan carefully to get yourself integrated into the community. That means your husband supporting you in making your own friends, developing your career at least as much as he develops his, using his friends and family to help you, etc. It's much harder to do this as a married woman with kids than as a free and single 20 something, especially if your role in the family is to carry more of the domestic load.

In your shoes, if you're unsure about it, I think you should
be very reluctant to move countries in case you change your mind or your marriage deteriorates (which is not something to dismiss if you are moving country) and you end up stuck in a country you have no other ties to in order to stay with your kids as you would be unlikely to be able to insist on them going back to the UK with you if their father disagreed.

Yeah, I’m American. 10/10 don’t recommend America. It’s nuts and backwards here.

Also agree completely with everything written by @Happyhappyday. so you can see that the experience in the US is too varied to really compare.

I have 4 weeks holiday plus and superior health coverage and access to excellent healthcare. I’m really shocked by the stories about NHS maternity wards, for instance. Also it’s always strange to see the hand-ringing and heated debates about whether to go to A&E. How angry people get about others going if they don’t think it’s absolutely warranted. That’s not an issue in the US. I popped in and had an X-ray and consult within about 15 minutes recently.

Do you watch Yorkshire Peach on Facebook. A woman called Lisa from Georgia now married to an Englishman living in Yorkshire. She does lots of US/UK comparisons.

Speaking as an American, I’d say England. I’m so paranoid when I go to the grocery store, the movies, etc. because of the chilling normalcy with which we respond to the frequency of mass shootings here. Hell, we pay no mind to inner city shootings where children are also slaughtered everyday unless conservatives seize these statistics to blame liberals for their ”failed leadership.” Or how we allow for children who rifle through their mom’s purse and find a loose gun that ends up shooting themselves or their sibling dead. These stories are mere blips in our national consciousness, if they’re mentioned at all. Always, I have to wonder, will I just be another number that people quickly forget?

Like others have said, there are wonderful places to live in the US. New Hampshire, Vermont, northern Michigan, Asheville (NC), Santa Barbara, Eugene (OR), etc. are all some of our jewels — they’re visually stunning, dotted with cute diners, and filled with great schools and high quality of life (generally speaking).

Of course, none of that matters if your child is shot in their classroom. America is going through a crucible and I hope it changes for the better before we implode.

It’s interesting the perception of holiday days & maternity pay people have of the US: I currently get 18 days which over the next two years increases to 28 days. In my state BOTH parents get 3 months at full pay with additional time that can be taken. My job offers 6 months. I’m sure lots of people do only get 10 days, but I don’t know any of them! DH gets unlimited (and it really is unlimited). When I told my boss I wanted to work from the UK for a month to visit family for an extended period, he said great! Have fun!

going to a&e, it’s $15. Get seem promptly by a pediatrician for DC. Kids are seen by a pediatrician as routine, not as a special referral.

DD did an exchange with an American school.
The classrooms in the school had no windows and the classroom doors were locked when the lessons started. Also corridors were locked off with heavy gun proof doors once lessons had started.
I wouldn't want my kids living in a country where that kind of thing is normal.
Also the lack of holiday days at work would get me down.
Thirdly, DH has just has major, life saving surgery. He was made redundant a few years ago and is now a SAHD. The thought that, had we been in the US our insurance might not have covered the cost of the surgery or aftercare is terrifying.

DH gets unlimited (and it really is unlimited).

Really? DBIL also gets ‘unlimited’ but it came with a strict warning from his boss that he wasn’t to take more than a week. He’s also a 6 figure earner.

Growing up in America in a mid-income place, nobody took proper holidays. At all. It really blew my mind having previously lived in England where the fortnight in the sun in the summer was standard. We had lovely long weekends away because the public holidays are great but never more than a few days.
I know that’s just one experience, not representative of everybody, etc.

Also, I hear the pp who mentioned the wilderness. The scenery, access to
outdoors etc in the States is just unparalleled here in the UK, but we get closer in Scotland 😉

I could imagine living in Key West, or one of the other keys.

Last time I was in Florida in the bag search queue to get in to one of the Disney parks with my children, there was a man (also with his children) arguing why he couldn’t take his gun in to the park. They said he had to leave it on the car, but he wouödn’t have it, it was his god damn right to bring it in to the park..

There and then I thought, this is not even a place I want to go on my holiday with my children anymore.

*in the car, not on. That would if possible be even more weird.

My brothers have both lived in America for 30 years though they grew up and were educated here. For them America was better but they are both very wealthy. One lives in the most expensive suburb in America.

They are both due to retire soon, one thing that I thought was rubbish was the small amount of holidays they got. On a visit when my niece had her first child I found out she had 12 weeks off and that was apparently a very generous maternity package as she was high up in her company. They all had better health care as amazing health insurance packages with their jobs.

They tried to persuade me to move over when I graduated but as much as I love a visit I just find culturally the sort of more outgoing way is too much for me.

It depends on what your priorities are in terms of lifestyle and philosophy.

England is more restrictive - your kids will never own guns, will pay more in taxes as they grow up, will always be from a "little" country.

America is freer, but freedom comes at a cost. The obvious problems with racism and mass shootings, drug problems are worse, there is no safety net.

Your kids will be able to achieve more in America if they put their mind to it, but will struggle more if they don't.

I love the Keys, but can’t imagine trying to ease a child there.

I think it would be ok in some of the major cities, but if OP is hearing racist comments when she visits the area where they would potentially live, it’s not a place I would live.

I grew up in the south and lived in various places. I almost never heard people talk like this and when I have, they were people I could get very far away from and avoid. Does not sound like that’s the case for her.