Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

@mathanxiety You brought up road traffic accidents. I did not. So no you were not replying to my comments on this.

You asked me if I was worried about my child in a road traffic accident - basically trying to compare that with kids getting shot at school which I don’t feel is an accurate comparison.

But since you’ve gone there, road traffic accidents used to be the leading cause of death for kids over there and now it’s guns. So that’s a big reason why people don’t choose to move there.

The leading cause of death for children over here is not guns or road traffic accidents. It’s congenital malformations, deformities and chromosomal abnormalities.

Whatever re Brexit. I’m not even in the UK.

This:

death penalty will be reinstated in the UK within ten years. Abortion will be restricted, paid maternity leave will be significantly cut, and food stamps will replace cash benefits. All of the above will be eagerly embraced by the British public, or what remains of it once Scotland and NI break free.

… is all entirely your imagination / opinion.

It is NOT fact, because none of it has happened yet.

Again, as you so hypocritically stated to someone else:

You are entitled to your opinion, but not to state your opinion as fact.

Pretty simple.

Yep, I’m pretty negative about the UK’s prospects but the generation largely agitating for these things will soon be dead. Thank god…

Yes Brexit is a shit show. Yes we will have lower food standards and chlorinated chicken. The maternity pay will be worse but in US it’s insulting and non-existent for many.

You still couldn’t pay me to live in the U.S because of your gun culture. The U.K could go to complete shit, I’d move to many, many other countries before going there.

@Wallaw We will never have guns.

That is the deal breaker for many. Which I see is very hard for you to comprehend since they are so commonplace over there.

I’m not superiorly complacent about the U.K - I’d just rather live here than over there. That’s all.

It's easy to see the obvious about another country whilst wrapped superior complacency about your own.

Thanks @Wallaw - but I’m neither British nor American.

Lived in both, and would choose UK every time. UK is far from perfect but the tipping point for me is guns, medical care, vacation time.

There are many US forums that discuss access to guns; the lack of healthcare; the way politicians from both sides manipulate race relations depending where they are in the election cycle; how Roe vs Wade is being utilised as a pawn rather than it being codified earlier, etc. If you think it's only people in the UK who are concerned about the US then that simply shows your complacency.

The UK as a whole has a tradition of collective action, collective responsibility and a heritage that led to the NHS, prison reform, the education system. Yy Boris is by far the worst PM we've ever had and Keir is a caretaker leader who needs replaced. But their failings are precisely because they have aligned with US values rather than UK ones. Boris values consumerism and conglomerates over people and community. Keir has become stifled in gender identity nonsense and become confused about what left-of-centre means in the UK.

But as the UK we're never going to lose the NHS or our education system completely. We're never going to have the death penalty and our gun laws aren't going to be rolled back. And if the Tories don't get rid of Boris and Labour fails to remember who it is supposed to represent then yy the other UK countries will split from England because the other parts of the UK are clear-eyed about the path the US has taken and they don't want to follow it.

I think if you read through the thread nobody, literally nobody thinks the U.K is in a brilliant state at the moment. Nobody is defending Brexit. Or Johnson. But given the choice I would still choose the U.K. For the reasons stated over and over again.

Your argument is basically. - well you’ll be the same as us in 10 years. Not a strong argument. Nobody knows what will happen in any country in 10 years. And if the U.K did go the same way as the U.S l, I’d just leave. I wouldn’t stay shouting ‘you’ll be like us in 10 years’

I don’t love the U.K. I have zero sense of British pride. Quite the opposite. I’d love to live in Scandinavia or somewhere else in Europe.

But given a straight choice between the U.K and the U.S. Particularly Florida it’s the U.K.

Thats not to say I haven’t experienced other parts of America. We were given the opportunity to move to New York, I spend lots of time there. Still a big no.

Both are a bit shit really but if it’s a binary choice then England I suppose

You don’t have to eat that crap! One of the things I actually prefer about living in the US, especially California is the food, the quality of produce is better because of lot of it is local. I also find people I know here eat a lot healthier than people I know in the UK although I know this isn’t true for everyone (typical both as bad as each other)

I have also never lived anywhere without good before and after school care. When I lived in NYC there was free drop in before school care for anyone who wants it. That is a lifesaver especially if you don’t need early care every day, far better option than most people I know in the UK. The NYC schools also provide deee breakfast lunch and after school food for free for anyone, that’s over a million kids who have that available. There may not be a nationwide safety net but plenty of places offer a lot to help families, particularly children.

You don’t have to eat that crap! One of the things I actually prefer about living in the US, especially California is the food, the quality of produce is better because of lot of it is local.

Yes and no. I’ve lived in both rural and urban America. In urban America I had access to the most incredible food - at a huge cost. I couldn’t believe how expensive the grocery stores and farmers’ markets were compared to a similar urban area in the Uk (NYC and London). I had plenty of disposable income at the time so it wasn’t a problem for me personally but it’s a bit disingenuous to say that everyone in the US has access to decent food.

In rural America - amazing and cheap local produce (albeit pretty restricted to what was grown in the region). Grocery stores were not too expensive but the food in them really was very poor. I remember trying to find chopped tomatoes that didn’t have corn syrup in them and it was a no go. This was a decade ago so things could have changed!

Do you happen to remember what brands of chopped tomatoes were you looking at, @BlackandBlueBird?

I usually check tomato cans of all kinds after accidentally buying one that had Italian seasoning in it, and unfortunately it didn't go very well in the curry I was making. I am now wondering if I have been putting sugar in the spag bol all these years.

It is NOT fact, because none of it has happened yet.

@RenegadeMatron
It is therefore not untrue either, is it.
A prediction based on clear evidence that hits you straight in the face and becomes ever more horrifying the more you look at it is a long way removed from an opinion.

And fwiw, I'm neither American nor British.

I definitely wouldn't want a 16 year old supervising my primary age kids swimming.

@Classicblunder do you realise that the vast majority of American lifeguards and day camp leaders are aged about 16? Eight day camp leaders escort about 60 kids to the pool in my neighbourhood every day for 90 minutes of fun in the pool, then on to the rink for an hour, and from there to play organised team games in a local park. American teenagers tend to be entrusted with a lot more responsibility than British teens for some reason.

@mathanxiety no, as I say this was about a decade ago but I used to shop at Hannafords/Price Choppers. I did find it fascinating how HFCS was such a pervasive ingredient.

You’re funny. 😅

You tell yourself that.

I've lived in both countries and raised young children in both.
There are pros and cons to either decision and to a large extent, it's what you make of it.
You don't say where in the US, and that for me would probably make or break my decision. I lived in a liberal state with some of the strictest gun laws. But it was very expensive, even for 2 well paid professionals. On balance we had a better lifestyle in the US but that came at a price.

OP as others have said, you're not going to get a balanced view on here. I'd think about the specific state you'd be moving to and family ties in either country. Good luck!

England / UK definitely

But many many places especially in Europe would be better than UK I’m sure!

Racism, gun violence, school shootings, abortion laws, lack of social security support system, lack of health care if you are unemployed. UK has its issues, but with the above there's no way I'd live in America as a couple let alone with DC. Even if the other things weren't an issue I wouldn't want to bring my DC up in a place where racism was normalised. There's also the thing that if you move and don't like it, but DH decides he's not moving back you could find yourself stuck in America with zero support system. Big no, no way.

US: guns, school shootings, trump, regressive abortion laws, poor holiday allocations, paid healthcare, money in coal taking priority over resolving environmental issues, uni fee paying, dodgy police with guns

U.K.: free healthcare, proper holiday allocations, knife crime, a right plonker running the country, free uni education in wales/Scotland, low rape convictions, misogynistic police force,

both rubbish. My vote would be for Denmark. Wales or Scotland in second place

Considering the current geopolitical situation, USA might be better if you can afford it as it will be pretty self sufficient and less reliant on other countries for food and fuel as compared to UK.

Yet another mass shooting yesterday. My US friends and colleagues have added public parades to the places to now be afraid of going to - along with schools, cinemas and churches…
oh, and my new. ( temporary thank goodness) US boss expressed surprise that I’m not taking my laptop with me on my week long holiday to check emails while I’m away. He thought that ‘on the account of all the PTO you guys get’ I would deffo have been working ‘some’.
sorry mate, but I will be taking every one of my 30 days annual leave off, along with public holidays, and if you want to boast about how you just can’t seem to use up the 15 days a year you get that’s your look out…

The most depressing thing for me is how my US friends and colleagues GENUINELY think nothing can be done about mass shootings and that this just the way the US is now. TAKE. THE. GUNS. AWAY.