Archie Battersbee case

[whynotwhatknot]

I was just wondering why we're not allowed to post about this case-the deletion message mentioned it was ongoing so wouldnt be fair to the family

Charlie gards case was on going and there was numerous threads about it

Anyway if this stands maybe we can discuss

It's gone back to the narrative of wanting him gone so they take his organs. Seems to be 50/50 on who is stirring who up.

They do seem to be obsessed on the Dignity for All page with the notion that there are published transcripts of the various court proceedings that have taken place. There aren't, there are only judgments. I've seen at least one comment pointing that out but it doesn't seem to be taken on board.

And, of course, they delete comments pointing out that there is no danger of anyone wanting his organs because they've deteriorated too far to be any use for transplant.

we wont ever know who is hyping who up now really bu shes very defiant in interviews ive seen and insists hes not dead

From what I can tell from interviews etc she is saying that she doesn't trust the drs because they make their diagnosis after spending only a few minutes in the room. Which drs tend to do as they are experts and their brains work at double the speed of normal people.

I kind of understand where she is coming from as I've got dc with medical problems and I've been pregnant 7 times so seen a lot of drs/medical staff. I find some drs will make sure you understand everything, give you time to ask questions and make you feel like you/your child is really important to them. Whereas some will be quite brisk and forget that although they deal with these illnesses/operations on a daily basis it's a big deal to the patient and their family. I know it's the wrong way to think but I tend to trust the paediatrician who always remembers to ask ds how his piano lessons are going more than the consultant neurosurgeon who spends 10 minutes with ds (after we spent 90 minutes in the car getting to the appointment and 60 minutes in the waiting room) and dismisses our concerns.

However that is the reality of an understaffed nhs. I do wonder if they had a dr they could trust explaining everything to them in a way they could understand and without the "army" causing trouble then Archie's mum would be able to see that it's time to let him go.

Technology has improved things hugely in the nhs but when I watch programmes like call the midwife I sometimes think there would be a huge benefit to having a trusted local gp and a team of nuns in every town.

His organs will be in no fit state for donation since his body is rotting from the inside.

we wont ever know who is hyping who up now really bu shes very defiant in interviews ive seen and insists hes not dead

I think she’s delusional, I don’t mean this in a nasty way, if anything could provoke a psychotic break it’d be finding your child like that.

She won’t admit he’s dead, posts pics of his fixed/dilated pupils “looking” at things, told the doctors the brain scans of were someone else’s, interprets changes in blood pressure as “responsiveness” when Provoked EEGs have shown no brain activity. She knows that his brain has broken off and resides in his lumbar spine and still wants to keep going.

There’s no plan at the end of the legal battle, other than just keeping going. Unlike Jahi his fluid balance is precarious and he wouldn’t be able to be managed away from PICU. She’s not wanting to take him home on a ventilator or even move him. She’s not arguing to try a particular therapy, like with Charlie Gard; she just doesn’t want to admit he’s gone.

Over the weekend there was an interview where Hollie said she hadn’t been able to face going home since the incident. I know she doesn’t trust the hospital but I’m sure family members could stay by him while she had some physical space away from that pressure-cooker environment. In my experience, parents of children in for long haul stays would take shifts to allow the other to have a shower at home, have a rest. Although maybe the hospital is too far away?

Once he is off the ventilator she will need to re enter her house and deal with the inquest.

This poor woman. Jesus wept.

they live about 40 miles away

i dont think she'll ever leave him because she doesnt trust the doctors

@DontLikeCoffee I wondered about that case. Was she still in hospital when she bled? I know from experience working on an ENT ward that they can bleed a lot. But no one in hospital should die from it.

I saw the eye vid. I have seen more life in a waxwork at Madame Tussauds.
I really hope Archie's mum can get some proper help.

About Jahi McMath though. I did see a video were her family were asking her to lift certain limbs and even individual fingers, and she was doing it on command.
Twice over.

Jahi arrested in hospital, the New Yorker article reads like she was already in intensive care when it happened. Maybe more of an High Dependency Unit after a big operation?

Except for all the times she's left him to go to court for the day and for all the countless TV interviews she's done of course!

As a general rule, I understand what you’re saying about 10 minute consultant appointments. However, in this very sad situation, due to the court case, there is masses of detail on Archie’s medical state. It’s extremely tragic but not the case that she doesn’t have the information. It’s clearly presented.

@Teder Ah I see. I just remember seeing an interview with Archie's mum where she was saying that the drs can't know what's best for Archie when they are only with him for a few minutes and it should be up to his family to decide. Maybe it's all part of the delusion where she has convinced herself that he is responding then.

true about the court but she still blames the doctors for that saying she should be with him not fighting in court which is of course not their fault at all

I would be wary of videos tbh. They can be manipulated easily. even in brain stem death you still have spinal reflexes that don't require brain function, they can be elicited by performing certain moves. eg you can make arms move by digging your fingers in either side of the spine. AE's dad used to do this a lot. Also seizure activity can show as lip smacking or eye opening. If you record a continuous loop of you saying open your eyes for mummy, at some point it might coincide with some eye opening. you then edit the video to show just those 7 seconds of what looks like response to command.
You can make fingers move by pressing on thetendon on the inside of your wrist. this makes the fingers flex. looks like your attempting to grip a hand

ive seen some of the videos the parents posted of Jahi’s toes moving. The horrific part of it is that her toes are decomposing

The judgement is out.

As predicted by a savvy poster there’s a swerve away from diagnosing brain stem death given the conventional criteria couldn’t be carried out, and no one wants to create a new precedent.

The impression I got was that the appellant judges thought that the High Court judge should have then made a decision of whether to withdraw ventilation on the basis of best interests, rather on whether or not Archie is dead.

However, the grim medical prognosis is laid out very clearly and there doesn’t seem to be any appetite for refuting any of that.

“Best interests” seems to be the end of the line. I hope so

Judgement

Glad I called that. Means I still have my legal chops (handy because I’m going back to working in law 🤣).

Thank you for posting the judgment. I’ll be reading that this afternoon.

So do I, it's such a sad case ,and it's clear the parents will never accept that Archie won't recover .

I think given what they say in the judgement about the doctors being unwilling to declare death and saying it should be best interests, I can understand why the court of appeal thinks Arbuthnot J shouldn’t have done so. I can also understand how the court of appeal felt that the best interests assessment was something of a sideshow in the high court’s judgment, and more rigour is required if it is to be the foundation of Archie’s life ending by withdrawing treatment.

However I do wonder whether the court of appeal could have determined best interests itself to avoid this ongoing delay, given that there is no suggestion by anyone (before the court, I know the parents say otherwise on social media) that Archie will recover. There is no treatment suggested, however novel or outlandish.

I wonder how quickly Hayden J will give his decision after Monday.

You are absolutely right. I guess I am a good example of a layperson seeing a video like that and thinking the wrong thing. Just like how Hollie is posting "evidence" of Archie being "alive" and her army believing it all.