To think these comments are a bit uneducated/weird?

[savebuckbeak]

I expect I'll probably get slated for this, but here goes...

I recently started dating someone. Very nice guy, polite, kind, seems intelligent (went to a Ivy League university in the US), American but lived in the UK for a short while. Sometimes when we're talking I feel like some of the things he says, especially if we're discussing politics/world affairs, just sound a bit...odd. He's clearly very highly educated, which is what surprises me more, but maybe he's just a bit naive? It's made me feel like I can't really converse with him on the same level, but he's so great in other ways that I'd feel reluctant to let him go. Some examples:

When talking about Ireland..."I'm really hoping for Irish reunification". When I asked why and tell him that the majority of N.Irish citizens want to stay part of the UK, he says "it'd be cool to have it just as one island, particularly because of how downtrodden the Irish have been historically". Like sure, I get that, but if N.Ireland want to stay in the UK, then...?!

When talking about Priti Patel's Rwanda policy, he says "that would never fly in the US. There'd be protests all over the country." UMMMMM. Really?!?!?!? In America, where race relations and immigration rhetoric is arguably even worse? Is he suggesting that the US is some enlightened land? I questioned him on this, and he said "but there were loads of protests about the Iraq war!" Ummmm yes there were, but that's a different issue. The majority of people probably appreciated that protesting against a foreign war, where US national security is directly at stake, is worth it. But for a couple thousand migrants that get shipped off somewhere far away - that's not something (sadly) the average person would get up in arms about in the same way.

Anyway, there've been various different comments like this, and it surprises me because he seems to read a lot and I initially thought he was quite switched on, but I feel a bit confused now.

I think you probably know as much about American politics as he does British. We're all influenced by the media around us so you can't expect him to see everything in the same light as you.

Yeah, exactly. In that sense it’s a bit like calling someone naive for saying they think the UK was better off in the EU, because a majority didn’t want that. Hardly paints the full picture. I don’t think he sounds ignorant.

Your views are not your own. Each subculture within a country develops its own views and transmits them through education and the media, and they are then retransmitted through social media, and day to day chat. Irish reunification is a good example. You know about the proportions who want to stay part of Britain, because that's the narrative you hear - the voices you hear on this are overwhelmingly British. He hears a different one in his own country, where those who have opinions are overwhelmingly southern Irish. The real answer is found by weighing up the two. Be as open to his views as you expect him to be to yours.

Even within America, the subculture in California versus the subculture in the deep South are radically different. And they all think they're right. Just like we do!

That’s exactly the example I thought of too.

Imagine OP had said she thinks the UK should be back in the EU and her dates only answer was ‘yeah but 52% wanted to leave’.

No substantive discussion of the merits of her opinion. No economic analysis. No analysis of the UK’s influence. No analysis of the trade offs with full domestic ‘control’. Just ‘a majority disagree’.

If that’s the only response someone gave me to an opinion, I’d consider them unwilling or unable to actually discuss the substance of my opinion. I wonder if OP’s date is actually wondering if she’s clued in enough for his tastes?

I'm Irish but I've been in the US for 20 years. I think most people from the US think of politics in very simple terms, they don't seem to fully appreciate a lot of the complexities in some of the world political situations. They also have a slightly skewed view of things where the US is central and most important, and their view is the "correct" one.

These views sound like starting points for discussion (if that’s what you want)- calling them uneducated makes you sound hard work to be with! But obviously you don’t need to be with anyone who doesn’t stimulate you intellectually.

Gotta agree with this. Try to accept that people do have differing opinions.

This is totally true
I (British) consider myself to be educated and pretty aware of current affairs generally. But i don’t pretend to really understand the situation in NI. And I would never expect an American to.
I think most Americans have a fairly different view of the world to Brits. Yes the bf is naive (but not entirely incorrect).

It sounds like you would think anyone that thinks differently to you “isn’t switched on”.

If the NI situation was as straight forward as you seem to think it is, there wouldn’t have been decades of troubles.

No, demographics really doesn't work in such a linear way and so demographics is actually not destiny in practice.

Whilst it's well established the Catholic population in Northern Ireland has grown, its less well known that the Catholic birth rate is falling and the proportion of Catholics in favour of the UK has grown in comparison with the past. Approximately 100,000 Catholics identify as British only which is a pretty significant number.

So, it's not that clear that demographics will inevitably lead to a united Ireland whatsoever.

Yes, I'm from a family of Catholics very much in favour of remaining in the UK.

I've heard Brits say a lot of peculiar things about American culture, history, politics. It's not like ignorance only runs one way. I mean ignorance in a kind way, we're all ignorant about lots of things.

From your post title I was expecting some absolute clangers but those don’t sound like uneducated and/or weird comments to me, they just sound like opinions that you don’t agree with. He’ll have a different understanding of and perspective on certain things, having been educated in the US, but that doesn’t necessarily make him stupid or weird.

Sounds like you don’t like him much though and that’s ok! You don’t need to find a reason for that. It sounds like you don’t click with him and find his opinions - or the way he expresses them - grating. I think something in your gut is telling you this isn’t the man for you and you’re trying to put your finger on why.

I have to say that in my experience very few English people have even a rudimentary grasp of the situation in Northern Ireland. We are astonishing ignorant about it.

His comments about N Ireland are no dumber than the sorts of remarks I have heard from English people. Most Americans assume that it’s only the UK government that prevents the reunification of Ireland and while this isn’t true it’s not surprising that they see it like this.

As for the Rwanda comments: they are quite high handed but it’s hard to argue with his moral stance.

I think Americans in general - even educated ones - know very little about the world outside the US because they are not taught much about it and spend their lives being indoctrinated about how superior they are to everyone else.

So while I can see some of his comments might be a bit grating it doesn’t necessarily mean he is thick or chauvinistic.

OP I get you. It's not that you're annoyed that he disagrees with you on NI, more that his rationale is so flimsy? ("Let's just use the easiest geographical boundary and ignore the sociohistorical situation")

I'm from a similar background to him and I cringe at some of the things I said when I arrived. I will slightly disagree with comments saying the British are particularly outward-looking - in my albeit limited experience I've found that they are very clued-up and knowledgeable about UK domestic politics and culture, with lots of facts and nuance in every discussion, which is very impressive but hard to keep up when you haven't been immersed in that knowledge since childhood. Britain has a very rich, multi-layered culture and history and it's one of the things I love about it and the people here, that it feels alive and wrapped around me even in my 2022 life, but it's very difficult as an outsider to fully understand it.

Disclaimer, my circles are fairly intellectual but it sounds like perhaps yours are too. I'd give him a chance to open up a bit, he may not be a complete dolt, see what he does with new information!

When talking about Ireland..."I'm really hoping for Irish reunification". When I asked why and tell him that the majority of N.Irish citizens want to stay part of the UK, he says "it'd be cool to have it just as one island, particularly because of how downtrodden the Irish have been historically". Like sure, I get that, but if N.Ireland want to stay in the UK, then

YABU. And many people would share his viewpoint. Also how do you know the majority of n ireland want to remain? There has never being an referendum so that's hear say. That and what about the people of the republic-what about what they want?

Sorry op but you sound like an ex friend of mine, always had her opinions but if anybody dared argue her she'd throw a wobbly.He's entitled to his views.

I'm not so sure he's wrong about NI either. If they are so keen on referendums -why not test it

This. I hate when people throw crap propaganda around that has no evidence behind it.

I think the biggest issue is whether Eire would actually want NI

Yup this and why does the op not even consider the republic as if they should get no say in it, it was their land before it got taken.

Actually, it would be surprising he doesn't know who Sinn Féin are, especially if he's from an eastern seaboard state such as Massachusetts or New York. They're pretty well established around those parts.

Between that and his "it'd be cool to have it just as one island, particularly because of how downtrodden the Irish have been historically", I would say he's grown up with an oversimplified version of the history between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. He'd be pretty surprised at the actual history.

There are Americans who think the entire island has a population of 60 and even 100 million people. That shows how America centric their world view is as they tend to think in terms of the scale of the United States.

Of course, it is just a section of "Irish"-America that is militant about a united Ireland. And just a section of it interested in it. For most, their interest is really in keeping a memory of a relative or ancestor alive rather than truly being interested in the politics of a united Ireland itself.

This shows itself in the long term decline in those identifying as "Irish-Americans" in the US Census results. German-Americans are the largest self-identifying group in the States and have been for a few years now.

So, yes, I would tend to agree he is naive to a degree regarding a united Ireland aspiration because he sounds like he's not given much thought to it and doesn't know who Sinn Féin are when it's well publicised on the east coast.

this seems to be he has expressed opinions you don’t agree with, this doesn’t make him weird or thick as you are insinuating.

Maybe his views just oppose yours, Op.

Or maybe he just knows more about what's going on on the other side of the pond, seeing as he's American!!

Conversely, if the NI situation was as straightforward as the OPs date seems to think it is, a united Ireland would have happened already.

I know someone who has a a degree in politics, admittedly from some minor midlands uni, she’s one of the most vacuous people I have ever encountered, and seemingly knows, nor cares, a jot about politics 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think that the increase in the way many of us read political posts on social media has had the effect of simplifying perceptions. Once you accept messages from friends and comment - in favour or not - you can find you receive a slew of similar, every morning. The podcasts, etc., tend to be very emphatic and emotionally-charged, although serious in content, and even to neutralise and tone down these in your mind, you can still get a very simplified take. The BBC, Sky News etc are measured and under-stated, but not so all that's available now.

Some of the new channels I didn't used to know about, such as, is it WION (?) appear to me to be one person summing up what is happening across the whole world, using nice homely analogies, at times, such ' the US likes to be classroom monitor'. I imagine watching a few of those summing up 500 years of Irish history in five minutes would give you a slanted viewpoint.

It's good to have reservations about new beau, as the gut feeling is supposed to be useful, but maybe good to take him to some archeological sites, or an exhibition, to see what his critical analysis is like focused on one specific thing. Just get him to express his spontaneous thoughts, untainted by any populist spiel.

As for what he said about the Rwanda policy, the United States is much more divided on immigration than he's letting on. Or perhaps he thinks its not that divided.

The last few years has shown how divided the US is on a number of issues including building the wall to prevent people crossing over illegally.

The Capitol riot really exemplifies the depth of the division in the United States, so he might well be more removed from the situation since you say he's living in the UK.

My reading of your post is you're disappointed he hasn't given a more detailed set of reasonings for each of his various views. It might be that politics is not a priority for him and he does what many will do.

Give a short, often simplistic version with no details or nuance.

I think you have to decide whether or not you can accept that level of contribution to issues of a major nature.

I now live in England and know that the English tend to know very little about the mess that they created on their doorstep

This. I was once at a year 10 assembly in a uk school, none of them knew that northern Ireland belonged to the UK, they just assumed ni meant the northern part of Ireland. They had 0 knowledge of its history.

The important thing is, is he open for discussion and debate?