To think these comments are a bit uneducated/weird?

[savebuckbeak]

I expect I'll probably get slated for this, but here goes...

I recently started dating someone. Very nice guy, polite, kind, seems intelligent (went to a Ivy League university in the US), American but lived in the UK for a short while. Sometimes when we're talking I feel like some of the things he says, especially if we're discussing politics/world affairs, just sound a bit...odd. He's clearly very highly educated, which is what surprises me more, but maybe he's just a bit naive? It's made me feel like I can't really converse with him on the same level, but he's so great in other ways that I'd feel reluctant to let him go. Some examples:

When talking about Ireland..."I'm really hoping for Irish reunification". When I asked why and tell him that the majority of N.Irish citizens want to stay part of the UK, he says "it'd be cool to have it just as one island, particularly because of how downtrodden the Irish have been historically". Like sure, I get that, but if N.Ireland want to stay in the UK, then...?!

When talking about Priti Patel's Rwanda policy, he says "that would never fly in the US. There'd be protests all over the country." UMMMMM. Really?!?!?!? In America, where race relations and immigration rhetoric is arguably even worse? Is he suggesting that the US is some enlightened land? I questioned him on this, and he said "but there were loads of protests about the Iraq war!" Ummmm yes there were, but that's a different issue. The majority of people probably appreciated that protesting against a foreign war, where US national security is directly at stake, is worth it. But for a couple thousand migrants that get shipped off somewhere far away - that's not something (sadly) the average person would get up in arms about in the same way.

Anyway, there've been various different comments like this, and it surprises me because he seems to read a lot and I initially thought he was quite switched on, but I feel a bit confused now.

Politics is American is very polarised and people seem only to know people like them. So some people would protest about Rwanda, others would love it, but you'd personally only known one sort.

Irish history is "taught" very differently there to it is in UK and TBH, I don't think we can assume we're right on that one. Although an astonishing amount of funding for the IRA came from the US and one of the reasons for the marked reduction in bombings here was the twin towers attacks and the US cracking down on people who funded terrorism. They'd almost seen it as charitable donations prior to that.

I don't necessarily think his views are odd, just different, which is a product of his background.

All education systems have a context, especially in terms of how historical information and political/geopolitical events are communicated. So what you tend to find is that people reflect that context in subtle ways.

He might find your angle on certain subjects to be distinct from how he's always viewed them.

I don't think anything he's said as you've said it here sound especially odd. He sounds like what he is -- a product of a different education system to you.

I think its just him. He sounds a bit biased and not very open minded. I know a few Americans who attended Harvard but they have pretty much the same opinions on things as any European/British person and wouldn't tend to come out with these very blanket statements but rather more would tend towards listening/appreciating others might not share your views/discussing all sides of the argument. I was pleasantly surprised.

And I'd be a bit at him not mentioning processing of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay tbh!

Well, I was born and currently live in NI and I don't think you're as right as you think you are!

In fact, in sentiment he's probably closer than you. Reunification very likely on cards - talking decades rather than years, but yes. Especially if Boris keeps pushing the protocol propaganda.
He sounds a bit vague on detail but then I doubt I'd have much detail up my sleeve on political issues in e.g. Lithuania or New Zealand. Americans do tend to speak with confidence even when they don't have a lot of knowledge about concepts, in my experience.

They're just different opinions to yours. If you can't handle someone having different opinions then definitely don't date him.

I think this sums it up best ☝️

On the plus side at least he doesn't think The Rwanda plan is a good idea! Had he actually supported the idea then yes get rid. It's just a different viewpoint from yours about the US reaction to it compared to ours. To be fair we don't protest enough in this country anymore.

As for NI, are you sure the majority want to remain part of the UK? They voted remain and with the Tories at the helm that may well change.

He sounds like your common or garden mansplainer 💁🏻‍♀️

I think he's expressed two opinions that are considered and thoughtful. A welcome change to the stereotypical gun-toting conservative American.

I've no idea why you're complaining. He can't be held responsible for America's fuck ups just as I bear no responsibility for brexit and the Tories.

He isn't from a fly over state is he, if he was then he would most probably have very very different opinions

Things are both taught differently in different countries, and portrayed differently in the media. Having a degree in something doesn’t mean you’re much closer to fully understanding the nuances of it: I’m constantly learning that much of what I learned in my History degree was through a very particular lens. A Japanese friend was once pretty scathing of my perspective of the Meiji Renovation!

Maybe see it as an opportunity to explore just how differently people can view the world and its issues based on the different propaganda they're fed.

Hey OP I think I am a bit more sympathetic to your feelings than some of the other respondents. I used to work with a lot of Americans, both on secondment and remotely. They do tend to express their views very dogmatically, less of (what used to be) British self effacement), and unsurprisingly they have a USbased view of events and environments. For example, one of them asked me if we still had Apartheid in the UK. He seemed surprised to learn that no, we had never had that system , that was South Africa ( and no he did not mean did we have colour prejudice, he meant the full legal and political system). I don’t think he believed that he could be wrong ….

Which is ignorance of fact. But it turns out that, until Kelly Holmes’ interview yesterday, a significant proportion of the British public weren’t aware that openly gay and lesbian people were prohibited from serving in the British military until the year 2000 and that if you were found out during your service it would result in a dishonourable discharge and removal of any entitlement to military pensions and benefits. So I imagine the views of your colleagues are less “Americans are all idiots” and more “most people don’t really bother to find out much about things which don’t directly impact them.”

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve heard the reunification sentiment, and there probably would be protests, at least in liberal cities (as there were protests against gitmo).

i don’t think he’s said anything particularly outlandish.

I worked for a US company for over 30 years, and visited a lot for work in various states, worked with a lot of American colleagues and bosses
my view is that American are very inward looking in their knowledge and views of world history, geograpghy and politics. That’s not surprising given it’s size, and the main focus being on their neighbouring counties . Think about it, America has never”ruled” or governed another country. Yes they’ve been occupiers for short periods of some countries with national governments still in power ( eg afghan, Iraq, vietnam), but they’ve not “ owned” other counties as such. Now think of uk background- at one time 25% of the worlds population for ruled by the British empire and by the crown. Similarly, france. Spain, Portugal all had empires covering probably a lot of remaining parts of the world. Trade was extensive, travel was extensive. Even relatively middle class jobs could mean whole families shipping out to live abroad. The working class were involved in trade coming in right across the world - liverpool and Bristol were once the biggest trading ports in the world. Our culture has been outward looking for centuries, as has most of Europe.

We are also geographically very close to a lot of counties all with distinct cultures and languages … in uk particularly most people travel to other countries seeking sun. the majority of people in USA will never travel outside USA. Majority do not have passports. A lot will not even travel outside their state- but USA states are huge…in USA people use flights like buses to travel to see friends just because of the sheer distances. Whilst many states have ethnic diversity, it is mostly black American or Hispanic or Mexican. There is not the huge melting pot of cultures in small cities that you get in Europe.

what Americans are taught in schools is mostly focused on USA. European history is brief and focuses on routes of American culture. Geography tends to focus on American and physical aspects without knowing countries etc..but hey…how many of us know all the US states and their capitals. There is only so much anyone can learn and retain as knowledge.

so, to many Europeans, Americans can come across as uneducated..they’re not but their knowledge of the world outside USA tends to be picked up form their somewhat dodgy press outlets and therefore their knowledge is skewed towards places in crisis. Hence why they believed a few years back that Birmingham was virtually a Islamic state or whatever it was 🤦‍♀️

I think you can then add to that , most Americans are conservative with small c compared with Europeans. Things we think of as middle or right wing politics are seen as socialism virtually. And most American cannot stand the very idea of anything vaguely smelling of socialism. Hence why there is such resistance to a public funded health care system, or pretty much anything publicly funded ( maternity leave, workers rights , social housing). The amercian dream is the self made man, and that everything is possible if you put effort and hard work in. You are the author of your own fortunes and misfortunes. And then you top it off with the cherry of patriotism.. Americans do not diss their country in any shape or form. They big it up. It is the best country in the world, the best democracy ..this is an almost cult like belief. Their lack of knowledge of other cultures allows this to prevail widely and unchallenged.

Hence why my ex boss, an educated women , earning big bucks and of mature years, who had actually travelled extensively all over the world , once said that USA had created the first democracy in the world and it was the model all others countries wanted to follow and eminate. Not one person in the room was disagreed. Until I gently said” er, where does the world democracy come from? Would that be Greek? “ 🤦‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

What is your view on gun control issues in the US? Probably quite simplistic, like mine…. We are not experts in other countries affairs.

He's probably been 'woked' by the so called 'Ivy League' university.

You're right that he's probably too naive to notice when ideas are flawed and incapable of doing any critical thinking of his own. It's bound to get worse, hence not boyfriend material IMO.

I don't think his views sound too bizarre or Ill thought through.

Not the best informed maybe (not saying wrong necessarily, just not cast iron rationale). It sounds like he's trying to contribute to the conversation and keep up with you on areas he's a bit vague about but his ivy league background allows him to do so with authority. Re Rwanda, I wonder whether he comes from a highly liberal area where people would mobilise for that and is extrapolating that there are people in the rest of the country who would do the same.

When you're an outsider, it's easy to feel you're taking an unbiased, even-handed, overview perspective on a situation, when actually you don't know nearly enough to make an educated comment. When you're an insider, it's easy to think you have an informed, knowledgeable understanding of the situation, when actually you're hopelessly biased.

His comments are perfectly normal. Nothing naive or dumb about it.

He simply has different opinions to yours.

I personally would not date you as I can't stand people who don't think that others who have different views must be dim and poorly educated...

Plus you seem to have some really rigid/stereotyped views of other countries.

this should read 'I can't stand 'people who think that' others'. I wish Mumsnet have an ''edit'' facility for messages :)

I personally would not date you as I can't stand people who don't think that others who have different views must be dim and poorly educated...

You sound very open-minded yourself 😆

I believe in Irish unification. It is a matter of belief and opinion. I'd argue it was more uneducated to argue against justifications for it. But this is a British forum so I'm not expecting much.

I actually think you are both coming from points of defensiveness - him not being realistic about US politics and you not appreciating a range of opinions here in the UK. You could both learn to be more open minded

I know lots of Americans who all have opinions on Ireland. I've always found it a bit strange when they know so little in reality about the situation.