To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

[portugalq]

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

Leave women alone.

Not only will it not give them a competitive advantage, it won't be validating enough.

They need to compete with the women in order for the world to recognise their womanhood.

It's not a one or the other situation in ration to chromosomes or hormones.

I do think this is a real casualty in the ideological drive to just change the category of 'women' to include transwomen, but without looking at the different ways we use that category, why having different spaces/events for women is justified, and exactly what boundaries make that category work as intended.

I think it would be more helpful to be a bit more thorough in considering each of the various situations where we treat men and women differently, and for each situation agree the most inclusive way that still fulfils the intended purpose - ie why it's OK to treat men and women differently in this situation in the first place!

It really isn't transphobic to recognise that there are genuine differences - between men, women, transwomen, transmen, medically transitioned/not - which sometimes need to be taken into account to be fair to all.

These posters parachuting onto threads, yelling TRANSPHOBIC and running away before they can be engaged in meaningful conversation is getting more than a little tiresome.

If you want to debate, debate. Hurling insults and promptly disappearing is pathetic.

I doubt many transwomen will be interested in a third category. They have already failed as male swimmers so won’t want to go down that route again, and swimming against other transwomen runs the risk of being beaten by someone who is a better swimmer.

And , let’s remember, there are actually two reasons for many transwomen wanting to swim against women, first it is an easy win, and second it validates their belief that they too are women, because look, here they are , swimming in a womens race. Proof.

YANBU, it's great news!

And surprise surprise at the few posters plopping one 'you're all transphobes' post each, then pissing off, completely ignoring polite requests that they explain what is transphobic about having a category for trans people!

People use their (male or female) bodies to swim, run, box, kick etc, not their 'gender identities'.

About bloody time.

Can’t argue with the science.

If men were pitted against a stronger group in the same way - that group would likely not be tolerated.

As the auntie of a very talented female swimmer, this news made me so, so happy!!

And this 100%!!

If they are happy with this, then yes, we can agree, it's just about being allowed to compete in sport.

As transmen and non binary individuals like the American footballer Quinn are happy to compete in the female category as it corresponds to their biological sex and offers them their only chance of success, it may be more than just being allowed to compete.

All they've got is that word. Nothing to back it up. Quite embarrassing for them tbh.

As pp mentioned, the question of children given puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery by the age of 12 really isn't relevant. Those children will be so damaged due to cardiac problems, osteoporosis, incontinence and chronic pain that there will be no possibility of any sport participation at all.
Anybody who advocates doing this to children is not worthy of respect in a civilised society. How any sporting body can even suggest it is beyond me.

Ie in a given situation, if there's no good reason to treat men and women differently/have different categories then we absolutely shouldn't. In which case, there is no justification for treating Trans people any differently, and it would already be illegal under the Equality Act.

If there is a good reason to treat men and women differently/have different categories (what the Equality Act calls a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim') then we have to make sure that how we define the categories still achieves the aim!

YANBU
It’s a great relief. Bring on the common sense and fair competition.

I remember reading that World Rugby conducted extensive research into this and found that including transwomen in contact sports with women means that the natal women suffer at least a 30% increase in risk of serious or fatal injury.

And yet there are still people arguing for 'trans inclusion' in rugby, as if women are merely a support service for the validation of male-born people at any cost. As if women being killed or injured doesn't matter as long as male-bodied people feel included.

It's great that people are finally waking up to the fact that women are people in our own right. We are allowed to have our own sports and our own spaces. We have a right to be able to enjoy competing fairly, and to enjoy being able to get changed in the privacy, dignity and safety of a single sex changing room.

Do not forget how differently women were treated protesting of poor Sarah Everads vigil.

Yanbu, even those who don't consider themselves gender critical often think in sports it wouldn't be fair for trans women to compete with women (anyone with any knowledge of biology anyway). Common sense has won

That transwoman MMA fighter was interviewed on the Today programme (I think it was they) this morning, saying that transitioned males have no advantages. I have to say I was a bit gobsmacked.

I sincerely hope this decision will apply to ALL levels of swimming competition and not just elite.
A Trans woman competing at regional level, is robbing a female of a place in the pool and hence the possibility of making it to elite competition.

Needs to apply to all sports, my DD does Cross Country, its hard enough as it is to be competitive without a male turning up to run in a sports bra.

I don’t think it’s necessarily the “trans community” pushing for puberty blocking drugs on children or if they are it’s because they’ve been sadly manipulated by the fact this agenda is ultimately driven by big pharma and capitalism.

Some of them are not even aware of how much this ideology has made them a victim.

Fallon on radio 4 now. Apparently its not fair

Why don't the BBC interview interview Tamikka Brents (the woman with the bronken skull) instead of Fallon? So much for unbiased reporting!!

There’s a hate crime board? Goodness.

Please explain where the transphobia is. My guess is you can't as there isn't any on this thread.

What hate crimes are you talking about? The numerous hate crimes against women?

what are the “relevant” boards? Do you not know how to use online forums? You can hide threads or choose not to read ones you don’t like because your opinion is in the minority.

Pride “month” ? it’s all bloody year round corporate rainbow washing and intelligent people can see through it now. It’s no longer about equality for same sex attracted people.