To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

[portugalq]

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

I was so pleased to hear this. Someone seeing sense at last. Although I expect it will only be a matter of time before the decision gets overruled. A couple of months ago I was listening to a radio phone-in where they were discussing this issue,and I could not believe that the radio presenter was defending the right of transgender women to enter women's swimming events. He said 'I'm sure there must be plenty of women swimmers who are not transgender who are 6 ft 2 in tall'. I was 🙄

It’s remarkable really. So many gaping holes in the theory.

But it’s got the hyperbolic literally killing trans people angle so people won’t bother looking at how stupid the argument is.

Only takes one to point out the Emperor has no clothes on.

You describe yourself as a TRA and then write this:

And for god's sake, can we all not discuss it without resorting to onemanupship and childish name calling and 'see we told you sos' and the number of other things I repeatedly see?

You've got some front. No need to refer to the usual TRA slur as 'the other acronym", I'm a terf, a bitch, a witch, a cunt, a hag a fossil who needs to die in a grease fire or choke on girl dick. You must have missed the threats, intimidation and name calling in Bristol yesterday. It's all water off a ducks back now. Feel free to comfort yourself your on the side of righteousness with the "both sides" lie, we all know that is bullshit.

FWIW I DO NOT CARE. I'll take the insults because I'm focussed on making sure that women and girls do not have to share changing facilities with males, that women do not lose out on sporting opportunities to males, that women and girls aren't raped and then have to use female pronouns to refer to their rapist and told they are bigots for preferring a female counsellor or that women in prison are not incarcerated with male sex offenders.

Seriously, call me what you like, I DO NOT CARE.

and cis men and women

you mean "men and women".

Seriously, call me what you like, I DO NOT CARE.

Seriously - this ^^

I have long since stopped caring. ‘Transphobe’, ‘TERF’ - bring it on. It’s all water off a duck’s back.

Lord seb coe is looking at the science with a view to follow FINA in relation to making athletics fairer for women

I have to say, though - ‘looking at the science’. I mean, it’s quite incredible.

Every race time in the history of record keeping (and before that, people with eyes) shows men are faster and stronger than women. The science has been showing us this since the dawn of time.

The need to kowtow and forelock tug is beyond ridiculous, but here we are.

Quite why testosterone levels were deemed to be the ONE thing that mattered - that over-rode male puberty, muscle mass, bone structure and lung capacity - was that ‘looking at the silence’…?

No, but that didn’t matter - because it was only women getting thrown under the bus then.

So now we’re ‘looking at the science’ because a group of people are so profoundly unreasonable, so wilfully blind, and so extreme in their mud-slinging and silencing - that accepting what is entirely obvious to anyone who’s graduated pre-school isn’t an option.

And this is supposed to be ‘progressive’…?

I hope he has plenty of Sudafed cream at home, he has been sitting on that damn fence for a very very long time.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Agree.

I'm surprised how many people think long term studies into the scientific effects of testosterone and oestrogen will suddenly produce different results because it suits the agenda of gender ideologists.

I'm fully supportive of everyone's right to be who they believe they are and for males to decide what they think makes them a woman and to identify that way. However I'm also realistic enough and knowledgable enough to know that they still have a different biological genetic make up.

I hate you get lumped as transphobic because you don't agree biological males can be biologically equal to biological females.

It's like you either believe science and are phobic or you dismiss centuries of scientific data.

I'm sure if they studies para sports people for long enough they'd find a few who buck a trend. Doesn't mean they can compete equally with AB sports people across all sports in every event. And I'm pretty sure the AB sports athletics competitions would soon complain if they had to run against those using wheelchairs!

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

That expression is like fingernails on a blackboard!

I'm not cis anything. I am a female. I have XX chromosomes and oestrogen puberty. Even my hysterectomy next week doesn't change the facts I'm a woman.

Even my hysterectomy next week doesn't change the facts I'm a woman.

Why would it? Only women can have hysterectomies. It literally makes you no less of a woman.

Seriously, call me what you like, I DO NOT CARE.

I'm totally with you on that. Call me a terf, a transphobe, a monster, a fascist - I don’t care. Spit out your straw men and your whataboutery, and I don’t give a fuck about that either.

The genie ain’t going back in the bottle.

The parents would have no idea at all if their child has a chance and as you say parents choose lessons as its about how the lessons benefit the child.

My paragraph is to highlight the way TRA (eg the coach) will have to develop a semi-plausible myth or a story based on other research, which ignores real life but allows the listener the chance to buy in as the white knight eg part of the suicide myth originated from a small online survey on self harm which the very alive person filled in.

Learning to swim will be about access to safe body of water and someone taking the time to bring the child to lessons.

In elite sports, initially the parents are the ones deciding that they will put the time in to get the child to training and to competition's. A child may show promise in training in school etc but the physical orgaisation of turning up for compeditive training 5 to 7 days a week and travelling to meets needs lots of parental commitment.

Rugby League also banning male players who identify as women playing in women's teams at elite level. Wonder why they would consider it still ok for males to compete against women at lower levels?

Me three. Do not GAF.

That seems to be a popular argument - “Women can be big and strong, but the society wants them to be tiny and delicate. We need to do better!” - completely disregarding that fact that it’s not the big and strong natal women people have issues with when it comes to women’s sports.

You only have to look at our woman's relay team. Only Freya Anderson is tall (over 6").

Swimmers being tall is a myth. Some good ones are - most aren't. But that's the same for males and females.

GB gold swimming team. I wonder which ones are the women. If the men take androgen blockers for a few months, I will be even more perplexed, it'll just be impossible to tell. Also, I don't know which of my parents is my mother.

I’ve judged at u18 swimming competitions. The late teen male swimmers are really big - as a fairly small woman, they’re pretty physically intimidating (but generally lovely, polite - if very focused - boys; they’re just big, and clearly powerful). The teen girls are much fitter than me and often have impressive shoulders for women, but the difference between even the very tall or muscular girls and the boys is enormous. As that photo illustrates brilliantly.

mobile.twitter.com/yougovchat/status/1538897754537316353

Yougov chat is asking for opinions on this topic.

Thank you, I've responded. Responses so far are on the side of fairness and reality. Although the conversion therapy question was badly worded so I had to say "not sure" to that one.

I'm not particularly small but I was also dwarfed by most of the late teens boys on poolside too.

I've been offended by their arguments from the first day I knew of this, back in the mists of time. I really thought my first ever letter to an MP would have some decent response, like oh dear I had no idea, let me look into it.
But oh God no, I got some utter crap about being the same as gay rights back in the day. An entire screed from my own MP telling me to be kind.
It's taken from about 2004 til now to start turning this ship around. Its been a long time coming.
Just shows how very effective yelling transphobia and #nodebate and suck my lady dick is as a shuttingup debating technique.