Rent and bills. Doesn't seem fair. AIBU?

[Perfectworld]

How would you split bills / rent in this scenario?

Both of us have 1x child each from previous relationships, both late 30s. Fiancé earns £120k, I earn £28k. I currently get child benefit and UC top up, which will cease when we move in together. He has suggested we pay half the rent each, plus he covers all joint utility bills, meaning I still have all non 'joint' bills e.g. my mobile phone, my car payment. Due to this, I will probably be left with less that I currently have spare each month (which is already very little). The rent I pay will be the same as I pay currently, due to needing a bigger house to support both of our DC. I will be worse off some months, and others about the same financially because I cannot claim UC or child benefit. On more expensive months, for instance, the months when DC's school dinner fee is due, I will be worse off than I am now. He will be saving approx £2k per month in this scenario, which he has said will be put towards joint savings.

What do you think is reasonable for each person, how would you split finances?

So to flip that on its head what exactly is he getting out of this relationship financially (im sure you’re lovely op) ? Presumably they have chosen the house together so they’re both happy with the standard that that is. They both have similar tastes in food not like one was previously shopping in Lidl whilst the other was trotting around Waitrose if they’re splitting it 50-50 so which ever supermarket they using I presume will remain the same.

he’s covering all of the utilities which will increase.

if he was such a tight wad surely just stay where he was ?

I don't follow why he's saving when he has debt, he could be paying it off faster and reduce the interest costs especially if it's on credit card and interest rates are on the up.

On the main question, you can't afford to move in together with the current financial arrangements.
Personally I think he's right that you're responsible for your own finances for car, phone etc.
Perhaps you could split the rent differently to take into account the loss of UC and Child benefit. ( yours is a good example of why the £51k rule is no really fair)
You should discuss how you're intending to manage finances after you marry, saving for the wedding and mat leave provisions if you're planning more DC. I think from these you will get a better picture of his vision of 'sharing' the family financial burden.

Why are you considering moving in? It doesn’t sound a fair set up.
If you have less money, you’ll become resentful surely? I bet he’s thinking it is a great idea, that he’s protecting himself after his ex.
Protect yourself and your family’s budget.

Plus he could pay off the debt if he can save every month. All seems off. Are you sure it’s what he’s told you and not more?

Ah yes, I see I misread the OP. He is not saving an extra £2,000 per month under the new arrangement, he is probably saving less than before. Nevertheless, I would never embark on a long term relationship with someone who happily envisaged different qualities of life for themselves and the other people they lived with - that’s just a houseshare, not a loving relationship. If he isn’t ready to pool incomes and isn’t even ready to help make up for the fact you lose income and are thus made much more financially vulnerable than he is if you move in together, then he is not worth moving in with, or being engaged to, as an engagement is not a legal commitment, it’s just an invitation for you to let your guard down and put yourself at financial risk with no recourse if it all goes tits up.

The comments that I am a gold digger or thought I'd found my ''gravy train' are funny. I have subsidised partners in the past (though I hate that word as I have always entered into long term relationships with the view that we will be partners). Life happens, and quickly, the person on £28k ends up being the sole provider, that is what happened with my last relationship. Thankfully, he found a new job within a couple of months but I never felt resentful for helping him (us) out. We were partners.

I'm in no debt, I never have been because I live within my means. I can afford to save a small amount a month at the moment, £100. I wouldn't be able to save anything living with him, because with everything taken into account (my contribution, paying everything for my DC, my own personal bills plus loss of child benefit and universal credit, I'd be worse off). So, while some months I would be 'okay', I would need to constantly be planning again for when DC's school dinner money was due etc. My fiancé's debt panics me as I have never been in debt in my life, and if I ever were to be in debt, I would pay it off as soon as possible. He has much more of a casual attitude to it.

I have been thinking about holidays/Christmas/days out etc. a lot. I really do not know how that would work or how we would budget. I've always gone feet first into things and treated things like a partnership or equal. I need to think about what to propose next, whether its we split everything 75/25, or 'one pot'. I think the current proposal could get very complicated and messy.

I would sit and make a list of your current income and outgoing. Then the same for should you move in with him .
You can take if from there .
I think you should be responsible for your own car payment and phone , just as he's responsible for his debts.

I think the problem is you losing your UC and child benefits, that maybe he hasn't factored in .

Not sure how old your DC is but at some point you will lose the benefits once they become adults.

It might be you put off moving in together until he's paid off his debt and you have paid off your car .

I wouldn’t move in with him. You need the UC and he is in massive debt that he needs to deals with first.
DW and I have a similar difference in earnings. We pay proportionally in to a joint acct - or she contributes 4 x more . But we have kids together and are married.

Do not move in and do not mix finances.🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

Living together isn't feasible OP. The gulf between your incomes is too great for you to have a shared lifestyle without him financially subsidising you. Some people are fine to do that, he clearly isn't, and realistically you simply don't earn enough to 'pay your way' in this relationship.

Don't move in with this bloke till this is sorted fairly. He doesn't sound like he actually wants a partnership, and if you are moving in with kids a partnership is what is has to be.

The only workable thing is one pot, with contributions based on your salaries. You set up a joint account and pay in what is needed for bills, mortgage, food (separate account for holidays perhaps) - you pay 30% and he pays 70% or whatever reflects your earnings, obviously taking into account any debt repayments.

If he doesn't want to to this don't move in. It's either too early or he's not a keeper.

OP I think you seem quite reasonable. Your latest post spells it out, you are already worrying about gifts and days out.

Sit down with him and explain that you are going to be worse if each month due to universal credit and child benefit stopping and it’s going to put you on the breadline, worrying about school dinner moment. Perhaps show your partner and spreadsheet of your own finances and they’ll see where that money would make a huge difference to you.

He’ll be saving £2k per month and you’ll be worryingly about dinner money for DC. It’s not right yet but hopefully you can get there.

Op you are absolutely right it would get complicated and messy. And very stressful to be watching every penny while he has £2k spare every month.

Financially you just aren't compatible.
Enjoy his company but don't move in together. Won't be the first couple to decide that they get on better living apart than together.

I think you should both pay a % of your salary into the pot....say 30% each. I think that's a fair compromise.

OP you need to sit down and show him the figures so he can see he’s putting you in a worse financial position than you are now . If he isn’t happy to move responsibilities to accommodate that then it’s either too early for him to commit fully or he just isn’t committed enough to being in a partnership with you

Agree with this

OP, whatever agreement you make now, it's likely to stay with very little changes afterwards. So agree only what you can afford long term and won't create tension.

I have a similar arrangement with DH, who earns more than twice what I earn. He pays all housebills including mortgage, I pay all childcare, food, clubs, bday presents, anything related to kids, kids shows and days out, etc. Each pay their own personal expenses. Food costs have increased over the last 5 years, my salary was reduced during maternity significantly, we have been booking kids on more clubs, there's more uniform more often, in lockdown I paid for takeaways because it was a way of giving me a break and I found the whole year exhausting... He has been able to save thousands. I have over 15k debt. He cannot understand how I got there. It's not exactly the same but my point is that it's extremely easy to build on debt when you are just a tiny bit worse off and something changes that makes you an extra bit worse off again.

things to consider:

• Holidays, who pays, and will you consider what you can afford? 20% of a holiday to New York is not the same as 20% to a Haven caravan park.

• Restaurants, takeaways, etc. - same point as above. Set a budget. You could pay for the cheaper ones (McDonald's, fish and chips, whatever), he could pay for sit down meals and more expensive ones.

• You should always have an emergency fund to allow you to move out and pay three months rent (which in some places is the deposit for new rentals).

Yes, she would effectively lose child benefit. Not sure why people keep saying she won't? If they live together and share rental costs, they would classify as partners? Theoretically, yes, you can claim it and get it... but because your partner earns more than 50k a year, it will be taxed at 100%, which means you have to give it all back through taxes. Completely pointless and if you don't realise you get a huge HMRC bill all of a sudden. It happened to us. We signed the forms as usually because they came in the pregnancy pack (the one that is about £80/first child). I got the payments, all was in my name. Four years down the line, HMRC sent my husband a bill, he had to give back about 3k and it messed up his tax for another two years. Not sure why they never contacted me, though.

I think I would rather just go into things as equal partners from the off, I've been fretting over this a lot. I have visions of family days out in the future, such as quibbling over who buys ice creams on days out because I'm skint and really won't be able to afford it. Does he buy for him and his DC only, do I never get to treat his DC (which I love doing now), does he just pay for us all and grumble that he pays for all ice creams, days out, holidays and presents? I think if we are not at the stage where we can be equal partners in love and money, I'd rather just stay as we are now.

Yes, she would effectively lose child benefit. Not sure why people keep saying she won't? If they live together and share rental costs, they would classify as partners? Theoretically, yes, you can claim it and get it... but because your partner earns more than 50k a year, it will be taxed at 100%, which means you have to give it all back through taxes.

The DP would have to pay it back. Not the OP. This benefits her.

It's the same as him giving her the money she would lose.

Every time you post, it sounds more like you haven’t actually discussed it with him yet.

I asked earlier - you were talking about “probably” being worse off - have you actually talked numbers with him?

It’s all very well you saying you have always done “one pot” and been the higher earner in that sometimes… but was that when you had £120K to their £28K?

Even the example you gave was covering a temporary job loss with - I suppose - no reason to think it was anything but temporary. That’s not the same as week in week just giving your money to someone else and their child.

But it's a bit of a fly move to claim CB knowing he needs to pay it back in tax. And fill out a self assessment form too.

He has kids he must know that.
I really think he's trying to get Op to pay as much as possible leaving her in a very vulnerable position. While protecting himself.

You won't be having family days out because he isn't thinking of you as a family.

“I think if we are not at the stage where we can be equal partners in love and money, I'd rather just stay as we are now”

See that sounds good. But why do you think that equal partners is him giving you quite a lot of his money? That’s not equal. Sure, it’s the same pounds and pence in each person’s pocket… but it’s not an equal contribution.

She gives up £300 CB. He pays £300 more rent on her behalf to cover the loss.

Or

She keeps £300 CB. He pays back £300 in tax.

What's the difference?