Or is my husband re my nephew?

[TurtleDucks]

I am married to a Muslim Arab, very happily married and there are no issues around us being different religions as he’s not that religious.

DSis is also married. Her husband is a racist bastard and wants nothing to do with us because I married a Muslim. Took a while for the truth to come out but when I started dating my husband, I realised BIL was less friendly and slowly pulling away, but I didn’t realise there was an issue until DSis finally told me. He justifies his racism saying he has his reasons for not liking Muslims and not liking Arabs and wants nothing to do with us. I think DSis knows more about his views than she lets on, but that’s for her.

It does mean DSis is in a tricky position. We don’t live anywhere near each other so only visit my hometown 3-4 times a year, and each time he makes it really difficult for her to see us, going as far as threatening divorce. DSis recognises she’s in a controlling and emotionally abusive relationship, but she keeps hope that he will change so she has no interest in leaving him.

They’ve reached a compromise of sorts that when we visit my parents, DSis can visit us, but their son, my nephew, can’t. He realises he can’t stop DSis from seeing us, but can stop their son.

Now on to the AIBU. This really upsets me. I want to see my nephew and want him to be close to my daughter. I know they won’t grow up together as we live too far apart, but I want them to be close as cousins. DH on the other hand feels that DD shouldn’t have a relationship with my nephew on the back of all this. He says his feelings for my nephew has changed, as he used to really adore him when he was first born, but is now indifferent to him because of the issues with his dad. He says he feels no love or warmth for him anymore.

I keep getting upset at the whole situation and want us to find a solution but DH says that this is all their doing and we need to protect DD from any potential negative behaviour from my nephew. He has already told us his dad doesn’t like us, so there is a possibility his dad is feeding him more stories and as DD is mixed race, we need to protect her. He isn’t stopping me from finding ways for DD to see my nephew, just thinks we shouldn’t force it. But to me, family is so so important and it breaks my heart that DH isn’t being proactive in building a relationship between DD and my nephew.

I do think DH is more hurt by the whole situation than he makes out, but it’s DSis that is in the difficult position as it’s her marriage that’s affected by this.

What a horrible situation. I can totally see why your DH wants to protect your DD but I feel sorry for your nephew.
Your DH has no feelings or warmth for your nephew despite loving him as a baby? That seems mean, it's not his fault his dad is racist and his mum won't stand up to him.
But you said your nephew can't see you anyway so what's the issue? Surely your nephew won't say anything to your DD if he's not allowed to see her.

Maybe her DH is worried about his dd constantly being told by her cousin that his dad doesn’t like her? And it will come up repeatedly, because they’re kids.

It is really harmful to kids being told they’re not liked by a supposed family member due to the colour of their skin or religion.

Every day’s a school day because I’ve just learnt I’ve been using that expression incorrectly my whole life - I thought ‘blood is thicker than water’ meant ‘family relationships are the strongest’ (ie the exact opposite)!

He will learn that at school but it would still be a more forceful message if he knows his cousin. Having racists in one corner, perpetuating racism through their offspring won't change until they recognise by mixing that those views make no sense.

I think I'll decline the idea of mixing my children with racist families. It's not their job to stop people raising their children as racists.

My children are worth so much more than a social experiment.

LateAF thanks for the racist assumption all people living outside London are racist.

So expose the daughter to racist bullshit from her own family members on the off chance the cousin will one day have a come to Jesus moment and see the light?

Yes. Just chuck her mental and emotional health under a bus for the cousin’s sake. Solid fucking plan, that one. Won’t be damaging at all.

Mumsnet is a judgy place at times! In your position op I would encourage a relationship. None of the adults seem to be able to trust the kids to do what kids do.

It's so easy to say the sister should have left, it really isn't! It's like dn has been written off without a chance!

I'm from a family of racists. It's been a massive learning curve but I'm getting to where I am through educating myself. Give it a go. No one will be scarred by this!

How awful for your husband.

I would be leaving your sister and nephew to it and would not want either of them around my child.

Yes. Just chuck her mental and emotional health under a bus for the cousin’s sake. Solid fucking plan, that one. Won’t be damaging at all.

You need to try it aswell. No one is going to learn or grow with your shitty attitude. It doesn't affect you, so it's easy to spout crap. Stop guilt tripping and facilitating hate!

OP said in her first post the cousins weren't seeing each other because her BIL won't allow it.
So in that case how will her DD be affected by DN? They don't see each other so DN won't be saying anything.

I'm with your dh. At least he doesn't 'hate ' your nephew based on nothing else but who his father is and that can't be changed. Your bil does feel this way though towards your dh and quite likely your child. It is incredibly hurtful to know that someone would hate me or my children without knowing any of us based on our religion, so I really feel dor your dh. I also do not think your dsis is innocent in this, her dh's racism isn't an issue for her until he comes into contact with your family but I refuse to believe he doesn't air his views in their home or around your dn.

Your dh hasn't interfered in your relationship with your sister and nor should he but I would put my own nuclear family first.

Yes, exposing a mixed race kid to racists as a teaching aid is…racist. Stunning logic. On that note, I’m gonna go for the hard pass on that suggestion.

fucking hell 😂

We're talking about a child. It hits an all time low when people stop taking chances on children because of the parenthood!

"A mixed race kid" Nice description. My racist parent uses the exact same term!

Stop being so sensitive and stop twisting my words. If I said I won’t ever walk through a park at night again because, male violence, does that mean every man is a rapist or more incidences of rape/sexual violence are perpetrated by men?

I have experienced less racism in London than anywhere else I have lived in the UK. I’m not chancing it again. Unless you lived through targeted racism and exclusion in predominantly white areas or found London to be as racist as less diverse areas, not sure why you’re commenting on my opinion since nothing you say has the weight of actual experience.

its one thing for adults to take a chance on a kid, it’s another to expect another child to take one for the team, especially a child that’s on the receiving end of racist abuse from said cousin’s family.

He’s not owed a ‘learning experience’, she’s not a tool for his enlightenment. She’s entitled to not be exposed to racist members of her extended family. I guess it also fuck her father for not wanting his kid on the receiving end too. After all her needs are lesser than those of her cousin. Fuck what impact it may have on her and the damage it could cause, cousin is entitled to his teaching aid.

Yeah, bollocks to that.

....to your face. Your sister is as bad as her husband. She's comfortable with her racist and she's comfortable playing the innocent when you're around because there's high drama to see you and it's easy to blame him. You're not there enough to judge what she's like with him.

From one mother of a mixed race child to another: protect your child and do not expose her to racists to play out some faux sentimentality.

Putting aside everything else for the purpose of answering your initial question OP no, your DH is not being unreasonable. He is seeing potential risk to your DD and wanting to protect her from that and he's right, there is a risk of harm to her if your DN parrots his fathers views or treats DD differently because of them. Your DD has family who love her and don't pose any threat, she's missing nothing by not having relationships with family members with the potential to expose her to racism.

In the kindest possible way the picture you have in your mind is based on your own childhood experiences, not the reality you (and more importantly DD) are faced with now. This really isn't worth the risk when it's DD in the firing line, her having the same relationship with her cousin as you had with yours is nowhere near as important as protecting her from racism.

I would shield your kids from a racist. Far too upsetting. Your DS needs to wake up and leave him.

OK then, we'll just carry on as we are, a great plan.

He wasn’t like this when they met and got married so she thinks it’s just stress

I absolutely do not believe that your sister was unaware when she married her husband that he was a racist. People don't just flip a switch one day and become, overnight, so racist that they won't be in a room with a Muslim relative. There is no way that racist views wouldn't have surfaced many times before, and yet she still managed to fall in love with him instead of finding it an abhorrent dealbreaker. She only thinks racism is a problem now that it's actually affecting her relationship with you.

If my sister had a) married a racist and b) claimed her partner's refusal to see (or allow his child to see) my partner for racist reasons was the result of 'just stress', my patience with her would have run out by this point. As you say, she is certainly being treated badly by a controlling partner - but she has also made some very clear choices at various points along the way that very much do not paint her in a good light.

Your DH is absolutely correct in all this. Frankly, he's been way more accommodating of this situation than I would have been in his situation. He is the only one out of all the adults involved who has done literally nothing wrong.

He wasn’t like this when they met and got married so she thinks it’s just stress

Stress related racism? That’s a new one!

There was a point in my life where I was so stressed at work that I was vomiting before, during and after shifts, absolutely out of my mind stressed. I didn’t suddenly become a racist twat however.

If “stress is making him racist” then he always was racist. Nobody becomes racist overnight.

Your sister agrees with him or she wouldn’t still be with him. You are yourself condoning the behaviour - you seem to care more about your sister and nephew than you do your own child and husband. Thoroughly odd.

Because OP is actively looking for ways her dd can meet her nephew and getting upset that her DH won't help her.

True but at the moment the cousins aren't meeting. No child or adult should be exposed to racism and it's even worse that it's coming from family.
I can totally see her DHs point and why he doesn't want his DS mixing with DN. I'm sure I'd feel the same.
It still seems sad that he's disconnected from DN. As far as I can see DN hasn't said anything but he's being blamed just because of who his dad is.
Absolutely the most important thing is to protect your DD and not expose her to racist comments but having racist parents doesn't always equal having racist children. If it did you wouldn't hear about parents disowning their children for marrying someone of a different race.
Without knowing what DN has said it's hard to say if it's right keeping the children apart.

It still seems sad that he's disconnected from DN. As far as I can see DN hasn't said anything but he's being blamed just because of who his dad is.

Why would you expect him to stay 'connected' to a child he is only related to by marriage and whom never sees and has no relationship with?

He's not blaming the child for anything - the child's parents have literally banned him from seeing the child and therefore he's not going to actively facilitate additional contact between his mixed-race daughter and a family who have already made it clear that they are racist.

Would you expect him to encourage a play date with the child of a pair of racists if those racists were just some old friends of his wife's, rather than her sister and brother in law? I certainly wouldn't. The fact that the child happens to be a cousin is neither here nor there. His daughter isn't losing out by not seeing her cousin.