AIBU to ask how do you manage it all if you work full time and have kids?

[dillydally24]

I have two DC (both under three), work full time in a 50-60 hour a week senior role and have no time for anything. I have a lot of help - a full time nanny and a cleaner who comes twice a week - but our house is often a bit of a tip and I never do anything for myself. My DH helps out, but his work is more demanding than mine, so he doesn't make a huge impact. We also have a dog and a house renovation in the go. If you work full time and have young kids, how on earth do you manage it?! Any tips are gladly received. It is this just the way it is for the next few years while the kids are young...?

I think you tell DH he needs to be responsible for half of the childcare and housework, and then leave it up to him how he manages that.

Maybe he does it himself, or maybe he outsources it (and organises/manages the outsourcing). It shouldn't matter what his solution is as long as the job gets done and it's off your radar.

(And is his job honestly more stressful and intense than a 60 hr/wk job? Or has he just convinced you that it is? Maybe it comes in fits and starts, and some weeks are busy but others really aren't and he could do a lot more than he does during those times...?)

@ProseccoStorm

How did you find your housekeeper?

I tried really hard to find someone at the beginning of the year, but everyone I found just wanted to clean; they didn't want to do wider duties. I ended up abandoning the idea because I was so busy and trying to find someone was only adding to my workload.

I feel your pain, there's no magic bullet. I also understand why you can't always just drop hours. I'm not sure people appreciate that some jobs don't work on a part time or short day basis.

My previous job was in corporate finance where no one did 9-5 or worked part time. (Our chief executive did once announce that anyone not at their desks at midnight would be on the redundancy list, which went down well).

It's not simply a matter of managing your work load better either. If you're working on an acquisition or disposal, you're having to manage two sets of companies, lawyers, accountants, brokers, regulators etc with very tight timescales. The timing is out of your control to a large extent and it's your job to stay until it's done.

I loved the job and the financial rewards were great. I stepped away from client facing work when I had kids as I just couldn't have kept going at that level and balance childcare.

But respect to those that do.

@LannieDuck

We were lucky and had someone recommended. Nanny Jobs does have a housekeeper category or perhaps use a staffing agency?

Our nanny is a nanny housekeeper as our kids are at school. She housekeeps in the day and is nanny in the afternoon for pick up. She's amazing, it wouldn't work without her

I think this just sums it up.

There are some senior jobs (probably the OP has one) where you can manage your time and work around children by wfh or working flexibly.

There are others (which sound like the DH’s job) where the expectation is that you are always “on call”. In these you either need to give up entirely, try and find a sideways move that is equally senior but has less expectations for 24-7 availability, or work the peaks and use the troughs to do your share at home. Most women will do one of these. Most men seem to plough on regardless and expect their wives to step in on the home front. But in this case the OP has her own career aspirations and the DH is essentially asking her to sacrifice them or her health.

If you are working 50-60 hours a week, I am skeptical that your DH’s job is more demanding than yours. I would start there.

Oh wow. I totally relate. I also feel resentful of male colleagues who have wives who are SAHP, even though I wouldn't want to be like them because it would mean I wouldn't see my kids enough (I am always home for bath and bedtime, then I work remotely afterwards to catch up).

It's really interesting - so many of us feel like this, but in fact it's a false dichotomy. The question isn't 'would you like to be like your male colleague who never sees his kids" but 'would you like to be like your male colleague who works roughly the same hours as you do but who doesn't feel terribly guilty because he knows his children have one to one care from the other parent.'

They're quite different scenarios - looking back to my own career at that time, I wouldn't have felt nearly so anxious, over-driven and guilty if their other parent was at home when it mattered.

Not sure what my overall point is, other than 'it's the structural oppression of women like everything else, and that's why sex matters!".

@ProseccoStorm Thanks! I haven't tried an agency yet. Gave up after my own search failed... I might try again via a company :)

Why..?
there is literally no logic to that, unless you are unable to comprehend that someone might work longer or harder than that

On the DH side, I actually found my life got considerably easier by communicating directly with my husbands PA. I tell her to block out slots for drop-off and it gets done in a way that it didn’t when I asked him to do it. My view is that if lunches and charity events go in the diary, so can childcare.

I do think you need to have an honest discussion as to whether things are working for you and whether it’s worth it. We have had quite a lot of those discussions and on balance think the struggle currently is ok but will review every few months and see if we still feel the same. Everything is a compromise and I think my children are probably missing out a bit with our current work patterns. I don’t necessarily think that is a good think and I won’t look at promotion as the extra money wouldn’t not be worth the extra hassle. It is so hard though when you’ve worked really hard for a career and enjoy it.

If it helps, mine are now older and at university. I asked them recently if they thought they had missed out in their childhood with my working full time. They said not - I had been there for all of the important stuff, and DD2 (who went to a primary school where I and her teacher were the only working mothers) said that it showed them and their friends that women could have careers.

It got easier as they got older - they would stay later at school for sports and homework club. Sports happened on a Saturday, so we could go along and support. I also helped out with the basketball teas on Saturdays (never wanted to see chilli or grilled cheese again!), so more involvement with the school community (and more working mothers in high school!). And they came home on the school bus, and walked home from the bus stop on their own from age 11. By the time they were 11, I felt that life was much easier.

Why would you have kids & work a 60hr week even with help? Just give up work ft.

Do you give this exact same advice to men?

100% I would. My husband did give up work ft for equal childcare

I’m skeptical because while there are people who regularly work more than 60 hours a week, there are many out there that don’t or don’t have to. I’m just playing the odds that op’s husband isn’t a deployed soldier or a training doctor working 24 hour shifts at the hospital. Instead, it’s more likely he is an office worker who won’t commit to leaving at a certain time to relieve the nanny even though tons of senior woman have to do it every day.

over the decades I have started to see a shift. More men are starting to insist on hard stops. To say, I have to leave this meeting that is running long to go pick up my kids, but I can get back online in an hour to follow-up or I will email you after I put them to bed. It’s slow though. Painfully slow.

OP, you definitely have a bit of a DH problem - what stood out to me from your daily timetable was the fact that you do both morning and evening handovers with the nanny every day. It’s practically impossible to do this and keep performing in a senior 50+ hours per week role without burning out.

I work (albeit very part-time) in a similar field to your husband so I do get that some weeks it will be impossible for him but he needs to step up when things are quieter - and in my experience people generally don’t start early in this line of work so he could definitely do mornings on some days, allowing you to get into the office early and therefore hopefully avoid having to work in the evening.

Otherwise, what everyone else said - outsource where possible, try to wfh a bit, easy meals and ignore the mess!

Lots of preparation and planning, without any paid or unpaid help! Lucky if one works wfh, which my OH does. Although I know it shouldn't be seen as extra valued time to do washing, clean up, cook etc, but let's be honest, wfh seems to allow this? Not jealous at all, cough. Lol. X

Can you reduce your hours, sounds like you will unlikely have much free time at all. Depends on what you want really, if you're ambitious and can manage, which sounds like you are but for how long? Maybe time to reassess your situation as at some point you may become overwhelmed with how much you have on your plate. Is the extra money to pay for help worth it at the moment, or would you rather take on these responsibilities yourself and be at home more? Only you can decide what is best and more important but there are options. Best of luck. X

Sceptical because you don’t know anyone in your immediate circle who works these sorts of hours, or sceptical because it’s beyond the ability of your imagination to comprehend anyone has to..?

I work in a company of 500+ people and we are all expected to work those hours.

not sat at a desk, but like OP says, you need to work in the evening
If your US counterpart emails you at 9pm asking a question, you have to answer it
if your Dubai counterpart emails on a Sunday, you deal with it

if your colleagues come out of a 6pm Friday meeting saying feedback was this needs redoing before Monday’s meeting, you do it

if you can’t comprehend that world exists for other people, you probably don’t have anything helpful to offer OP on this thread TBH

We have a similar domestic arrangement to you although DC are older eleven and nine, it's pretty unsustainable and I'm thinking of going part time in future as I hardly do anything for myself these days, plus DC have weekend activities and parties etc. Don't burn out.

Working 50 hours a week on a regular basis is an absolutely ridiculous amount for anyone to do even if single and no children. If done for a prolonged period your stress levels would be through the roof (never mind throwing into the mix a relationship, two children, a dog, renovations and hired help in the household).

Something has to give somewhere along the line your productivity/competency at work, maybe your physical and or mental health, your relationship/marriage, your relationships with your children, the educational achievements of your children, your friendships, wider family relationships etc etc. You can’t pour from an empty cup and your stress bucket must be absolutely over spilling.

I would reduce my workload significantly if at all possible can you delegate some tasks and or reduce your hours to a more manageable amount i.e. 35 or 37 1/2 hours over 4 days if at all possible or find another more manageable job. That is no life for anyone. Take care.

Geewhiz I work with some clients who are juggling several multi million pound projects at any given time across international time frames and zones.

None of them have the expectations described in some of the thread here that they will drop everything in reply to emails on a Sunday morning or stay late on a Friday night to relay feedback what an incredibly toxic environment. I suggest you get in touch with your local head hunter and get the hell out of there before you have a heart attack at 50.

OP why are you working 50-60hrs per week does your DH do thev same? Not good hours for family life. Myself and DH both work 40 hrs per week. We’v a cleaner and gardener. The rest we do ourselves. The house is usually untidy wouldn’t worry about that. I don’t know any1 with DC with a tidy house 🤣

Just to say I do 48 hours a week the trick is having a DH who steps up. My working week looks like this:
Mon 7-4:30
Tuesday 7-6
Weds (my short day) 8-4:30
Thurs 8-6
Friday 8-5

DH does DCs on Mon& Tuesday mornings, tuesday, thursday and friday afternoons
I do the opposite. Tuesday is my "free"day
Wednesday is his.

I manage to squeeze a run in on Wednesday mornings. He often goes surfing on friday afternoons.

I am near the top of my profession in a highly-paid, high-prestige role (I’m not bragging, just setting context) and, understandably, people demand a lot of you in that role

I think you and your DH have prioritised status/money over being involved parents, that sounds a criticism but it is not. We are lucky our society offers opportunity for both partners to be high-flyers and/or for those who want to have one SAHP and a less lavish lifestyle. The money will be there long after the DC have flown the nest so you have made a considered choice.
The two families I know in this situation have live in help, in both cases a couple, who do all the household chores as well as food prep and this also provides an available chauffeur which has cut down on their commute time. Realistically I don't see how you can both continue to be 100% career focused without full time help.