AIBU to ask how do you manage it all if you work full time and have kids?

[dillydally24]

I have two DC (both under three), work full time in a 50-60 hour a week senior role and have no time for anything. I have a lot of help - a full time nanny and a cleaner who comes twice a week - but our house is often a bit of a tip and I never do anything for myself. My DH helps out, but his work is more demanding than mine, so he doesn't make a huge impact. We also have a dog and a house renovation in the go. If you work full time and have young kids, how on earth do you manage it?! Any tips are gladly received. It is this just the way it is for the next few years while the kids are young...?

Generally, I prefer not to go on threads and criticise other people's childrearing, especially other working mothers, because a post gives us only an imperfect picture of anyone's family life. I quit my 50 hours a week job, that doesn't mean everyone should do it. As for the "why have children" trope, I roll my eyes everytime that tired old saw is used to beat up on working women.

Where is Xenia when you need her?: ) Though I think she had a SAHD.

I understand completely that some jobs are more flexible than others and, despite numbers of hours worked, this makes a difference. My husband is an ex-banker turned entrepreneur who pretty much works on and off all the time. I couldn't tell you what his hours are. There have also been periods where he's been away a lot over the years. However..., I do think this kind of family set-up takes its toll. I been a SAHM because I just couldn't have lived with the stress and juggling if I'd been full on at it as well. I realise this is irrelevant to the OP because she is not going to give up her work, but from similar families I have known over the years, it's a fine balancing act which becomes more difficult as the kids get older. Bigger kids, bigger problems. Mental health issues. Exams,. The teen years are particularly fraught. A nanny can't deal with all this. It's not really about the number of hours worked and when, it's the 'headspace' these kind of roles takes up. This is what takes its toll in families.

@JanisMoplin

Rarely see it directed at men although in lots of cases it definitely should be!

Totally agree that in some cases, bigger kids mean bigger problems. Certainly was that way for me and I could not keep up the balancing act. I did think they would be easier when grown; more fool me!

You are doing literally all the difficult things at once. Young children, big job, house renovation. It's going to be difficult - as PPs said, outsource everything you can to make life easier, and lower your standards.

For what it's worth - my parents were in a similar position; they both did jobs that took them away overnight and long days, did a house renovation (twice) and we had nannies. I had a fantastic relationship with DM and never felt second best to work for her. It's simply not the case that just because you work long hours it equals your children not getting the attention they need.

You can’t . You can only do two, perhaps three, things well.

In your case you are focusing your time and energy on your work and your children. In your spare time you presumably spent some time on your spouse.

You have no time whatsoever for household tasks and house renovation and therefore must stop or outsource everything. You need a full time housekeeper, not a cleaned who comes twice a week.

A housekeeper who will manage the everything, cook meals, do laundry and admin.

And stop feeling guilty - most men in your position do very little with their children and ZERO on the house. And they take time for themselves after work ( while their wife rushes home, as you do, to be with the kids ).

@Topgub I can manage my own workload to an extent so if the kids are up later and going to bed later I can switch to working in the morning while they are asleep and can then spend more time with them in the evenings. I’m also at a phase in my career where if I put the hard graft in now I’d hope to have even more flexibility by the time the kids are older.

Never feal like a failure. It is impossible to have it all. All we can do is our best.

@Polpetto

That's good

I’m not that career driven, so I guess I’m failing to see the point. Why work all those hours just to pay someone else to do what you can’t, because you’re working to pay them… I’m a professional on a decent wage, it was worth it to pay for some nursery time and still work when the kids were little, but I kind of resented it.
Now I’m freelance, can take on more or less, but not until the point that I need help.

You've had lots of practical advice but I just want to let you know that you're in the hardest part of it and it gets better. Small kids require a lot of physical work and you having to do everything. It won't be long until you can be in the shower at the same as they're getting dressed, you can chat over breakfast instead of wangling food into them without creating a huge mess. You can cook dinner with them sitting up on the counter chatting about their day. My kids are 7 and 10 and I'm glad I stuck with it, even though its hard. The flexibility you have will work well as the kids get older. Bigger kids do have bigger problems, but are overall less 'work' and you can spend real quality time together. Finally you have to let go of any aspirations to perfection (in work as well). Can you find good enough in all your roles and catch yourself when you're putting pressure on yourself to go beyond that? And remember why you're doing it all. I grew up in a house where money pressures were always around, causing stress and rows for my parents. The trade offs I make for a house where my kids don't see their parents under that kind of pressure are worth it (and I'm lucky to be able to do it).

Thanks for your thoughts, @ChoiceMummy , but I think you've missed the point entirely. I'm happy with my working hours and happy with the way in which I'm raising my children. I am not interested in your (critical) views on this. What I wanted help with is how to make it all work more smoothly. Lots of people have come up with very sensible suggestions. Unless you have more suggestions to make in this vein, then I think you are better off not saying anything at all.

I work a 37 hour week. I have a 6 year old. I find the hardest part is the demands to play with her when we get home as I need to get on with cooking the tea so she gets her bath and bed by a reasonable time. Then we do her home reading in bed. I have permanent mum guilt. I do the bulk of the housework on a Saturday morning then just squeeze in what I can as and when.

@WithFlamingLocksOfAuburnHair Thanks for that comment. It's so easy as a parent to think the way it is right now will last forever. It's good to be reminded that things will change. Thanks for offering that perspective.

In my experience, it will get more difficult as your children grow older. Small dc, small problems, big dc, drama.

My previous comment wasn't meant discouraging, but I would plan for it as a possibility. Dh and I tried 'to make hay' while the dc were small and we had access to full time nursery, nannies etc, and built up seniority, investments etc, so when things got more difficult down the line (nanny quit, trouble finding a good replacement, dc going through difficulties at school/illness) I could scale back and spend more time with them. In our case, undisturbed working after dinner became impossible because dc needed to talk about problems, help with homework ... so as a result, work became more stressful as I was constantly trying to catch up, and relationship with dc became tense, as I was always looking at my watch. But we wouldn't have the quality of life and financial security we enjoy now if I/we had scaled back/stayed home for the first 10 years of our dc life.

I think it really varies. Personally, I found the younger years much harder - the emotional guilt of leaving a distressed young child, or not having enough time to devote to playing with them, nd the impossibility of leaving DC on their own when they're ill or have an Inset day. Now they're older, I can leave them in the holidays if needed, and they don't want to be 'played with' in the same way. It's harder logistically though, as they've often got to be taken and collected for after school stuff, and they go to bed really late! But the emotional side is much easier. But then I'm lucky, we haven't had any teenage dramas (yet!).

DillyDally24 - thank you for starting this thread. I have really found it v interesting to read. As I said my PP I am at the other end and I think you have been able to articulate more clearly than I ever did at your stage what your priorities are and how you will realise them.

Even at this point with DC at uni/sixth form - I still prioritise work and family over other things. Which doesn't mean I have no social life or interests but I recognise that other people have more time for that.

PP have said bigger children bigger problems and I agree with that too but I wouldn't let that scare you. I have been able to give homework help, been there for the friends issues, and all the other stuff that teenagers bring home (or you find out about!) It does help if by teen years you have a little bit more flexibility but that often comes as get more senior. Even with deadlines and pressure I was still able to eat with them each evening and find time for them any day. I've done homework help from the office or hotel on occasion! (Before anyone comments DH would happily do same but we have very different skills/expertise and he really couldn't help with English poetry in a million years!!)

I've enjoyed lots of 1:1 time with both my kids who happen to enjoy sports so needed lots of ferrying to practice and matches. I could catch up on emails or review documents in the car or clubhouse (watching training was discouraged so I missed nothing). At weekends the drive to matches allowed time to chat in the car, watch the match and in the process learn (enjoy?) about their sometimes terrible music. DH and I divided and conquered on that front. I think I do agree that it's important to find time and ways to connect with teen DC. I am currently enduring LI because that's what DC are watching so we sit side by side for an hour. It's not what I'd choose normally but it makes me happy that we watch it together.

Also nothing needs to be forever - you can reassess along the journey. I was fortunately on gardening leave the 6 months my DF died. It gave me the time to support my DM. I'm not sure how I would have managed if not but I'm sure would have found a way. She was recently unwell and I was able to work from her home for a week to support her. Being in a senior role made that possible.

Your thread has made me think about the choices I made along the way.

The other tip is give you is don’t go mad with Christmas stuff. We did too much last December and found the pressure got too much with travelling, parties etc. The kids were tired and sickly and we just overbooked at the weekends. I was relieved when omicron meant lots of things were cancelled. We all just needed some days at home to chill with the pressure and expectation of ‘making memories’.

Yours are still so young that sleep likely to be an issue. In that respect things should get easier. My 3yo is still bad if she’s Ill but my 6yo sleeps like a log and needs waking in the morning. Once you reliably get a full night’s sleep for a long period of time that’s a game changer for how the rest of your life works.

I also work a 50-60 hour week and have 2 little boys (1 and 3). It's not easy but we manage. We have no nanny, no family nearby or anything, but my boys love their nursery. We just do our best... house isn't always the tidiest but we do a tidy every night. When the kids are in school (and no longer costing us nursery fees of near enough £3k a month!) we'll pay for a weekly cleaner but for now we're just getting through.
Also the people who are telling you that you 'just can't' work 50-60 hours a week... nonsense. Some people can, some can't. Some people want to, some don't. And that's fine. I've also just completed a doctorate at the same time - again, not easy, but manageable. Not everyone's cup of tea, but not impossible!

When I see posts like this it makes me cringe. I know you came on here in the hope of picking up tips to help you manage your very busy life, but it is clear that your career, and financial security is far more important if you have to 'force yourself to eat with the kids' . Dear God why on earth did you have children? Why aren't they more important than keeping up with your work colleagues. I have nothing else to say.

Judgey posts like yours make me cringe. Lots of parents work long hours in demanding careers . If they are male, they are told how amazing they are and if they are female, they are judged by unpleasant people like you who can’t seem to understand that not everyone wants to live their life exactly like you.

If you don’t have anything constructive to say to the OP, why don’t you scroll on down the page. There are hundreds of live threads on MN which no doubt would benefit from your insightful mind.

Agree with many of the suggestions, OP.
You definitely need more of a housekeeper than a twice weekly cleaner. One who does meals is great. Perhaps, a personal assistant too (very useful for when kids start school and all that stuff gets piled on!)
If you can't get your nanny to work more hours (understandably if she is doing a 8-6 M-F!), then get a second nanny.
The way I see it--if you can afford it, spend the money to make your life easier now.

I think different ages come with different difficulties. The nursery years were more logistically straightforward but very rigid and relentless; fewer activities but less flexibility and constant illness. Mine are still only primary (10 and 6) but I'm finding it a lot easier in many ways, partly because I've put a lot of effort into building a strong local network and have plenty of people who don't mind if I drop the kids round to them early so I can dash to an early meeting, or who if I'm stuck childcare will help out, or who will ferry my kids to an activity. DS1 has one activity outside the local area and I really notice the difference that I can't work with someone else to make it work (and they lean on me too.) I have lost that sense of dread that it just one ball drops, everything else will come crashing down.

That said, I'm glad that the period when I was 'putting in the hours' in the office and at home was when they were smaller, it's given me more flexibility now that they're older; the school years throw up more unexpected things that you want to be present for and emotionally things do become more complicated for them.

It is hard OP, Hang in there. As others say, outsource as much as you can. Find trusted help for house jobs and organising. I found this difficult to do as I was raised in a house to do it all and save money everywhere, with two working parents your priority is survival, health and sanity!

I currently have my lovely cleaner in 3-4 times. Week for. Couple of hours.

Second suggestion, create a good self care regime, good sleep pattern, yoga, walks and breathe, this will help you in your life.

It.will get easier, or different 🤣❣️