AIBU to ask how do you manage it all if you work full time and have kids?

[dillydally24]

I have two DC (both under three), work full time in a 50-60 hour a week senior role and have no time for anything. I have a lot of help - a full time nanny and a cleaner who comes twice a week - but our house is often a bit of a tip and I never do anything for myself. My DH helps out, but his work is more demanding than mine, so he doesn't make a huge impact. We also have a dog and a house renovation in the go. If you work full time and have young kids, how on earth do you manage it?! Any tips are gladly received. It is this just the way it is for the next few years while the kids are young...?

You clearly aren’t in a position to hear this right now, working less is the answer for both you and your DH.
No-one ever lay on their death bed wishing that they’d worked more. Not even the people who save lives, and I doubt that you’re one of those fro what you’ve shared.

I’m not concerned about the state of your house, but if you’re working 50-60 hours a week when do you actually see your children? Honestly, reduce your hours (37.5 is ‘full time’ so 50-60 is excessive) and if it means you earn less then cut back on the nanny or cleaners. At the ages your children are now they don’t need a tidy house, they need their parents. These are their formative years, the time spent eating tea together as a family and reading bedtime stories is important and they won’t be this little for long.

I agree with outsourcing everything except what you enjoy doing.

Laundry, shopping, cooking, admin, cleaning, tidy, everything.

Make it to where when you get home from work, you sit down to a hot meal and everything has been done so you can just eat and then spend time with your DC and a couple days a week come home late as you were able to go to the gym/yoga whatever. This is how some young couple with DC have their lives set up. Nanny comes early when they want to sleep in a couple of hours and gets the DC up and dressed. It works very very well.

Same with morning.

I don't think that was a low blow at all. Just an honest response.
At no point anywhere in any of this has what's in the children's nest interested been uppermost.
At no point have you even suggested that you should focus on giving them more, just thsy you don't have time to exercise or for a manicure! In fact your comment was perhaps you could force yourself to eat with your children at the weekend so you get more time with your oh!
Why have children when the prestige attached to your role is the priority?
I presume that you'll be packing off to boarding school ASAP so that they really can be fully out of sight, they're already out of mind!

Unfortunately some clients just expect this level of service and demand quick turn around times including over weekends. You can't manage fickle clients just by being organised, however hard you try.

Basically, you do not - manage. What you/one does is simply survive, muddle through. Never believe the fairy tales about “time management” and other such abs tosh. On the other hand, advice from an old hand: review the arrangements you have., do the sums etc And do you know what: NOT WORTH THE HASSLE long term. Regrets will surely come when it’s too late. But that’s my story. I so wish I did not try so hard. No good to nobody.

Just to give perspective, I gave up my 50 hr job for a less stressful job because DH also works a 50 hour job, and I absolutely regret not working more. I will regret it on my death bed too.

Also, senior city/law jobs all require these hours and I don't know too many people who have been able to defy the culture.

If you are struggling (which is really understandable in the circumstances) is there anything you or OH can do reduce working for 6-12-18 months whilst Reno is finished/ kids are more independent?

if you are both senior and work such long hours I imagine you have some slack in your salary.

i have done this at various times in last 10 years. Sometimes working full time, sometimes 4 days, sometimes 4 days pay over 5 to pick up from school.

currently 3.5 days as income allows for it. Up the cleaners hours too if possible. Everyone happier. Good luck!

You’ve got a full plate. My suggestion would be to get a full time (55 hours Mo-Sat) nanny/housekeeper.

i had some advice from a mentor with 4 kids and reached a high profile role. Her view was outsource the things that don’t matter to the children. So she was fine having the nanny take the children to their after school activities but would always try and make sure her or her husband were available for nativities, performances, sports days etc: the things her children wanted her for but not the nanny. This is a few years on from where you are but it is the thing that I’ve found most difficult about having a school aged child.

Her advice was also that with juggling two high stress careers, only one person should be ‘striving’ for the next thing at anyone time.

I’d also say think about how you will use annual leave so you get a proper break and consider applying for statutory unpaid parental leave for a week (or more). The flex of a bit of leave can make a real difference and is much easier to negotiate than part time working given it’s statutory.

@ChoiceMummy the OP is probably well aware that her kids are happy and thriving, the problem is that she isn’t coping with a schedule where she is dividing all available time between work and kids. If she has a breakdown that’s not exactly going to benefit her children. And undoubtedly her career has given and will give them
massjce advantages in life and for their future.

If I was you I would realistically see how I could afford to work a lot less hours. You get this time once with your children and you blink and it’s gone. Obviously we have to work to pay the bills but if it’s at all doable to work less I would. My eldest is turning 16 and I just can’t believe how quickly it as all gone😖

Haven't RTFT, but one of the things that helps reframe things in my head is the thought that my job is the thing I do 'for me'. I love my job, and I generally really enjoy the time I spend at work - much more than I'd enjoy going to the gym or having a facial. I really like my colleagues (more than most of my social acquaintances, to be honest). Recognising how much pleasure and satisfaction I get from work makes me feel much better about the fact that I don't get much free time outside of work and family (though I do preserve one night a week for a hobby). If I didn't love my job - I'd give it up. I'd still need to work (unless we changed our lifestyle very drastically), but I could change to a lower hours, less well paid job - there are lots of them out there at the moment. So ask yourself - you're spending the majority of your waking hours a week doing your job - is it worth it? Is it how you want to spend that time?

It will get easier as the kids get older and more independent.

i used to commute to london and used that time to do an online food shop / check my personal enails etc

cook extra bolognaise for example and freeze half

i am currently part time but will be full time again when youngest starts school and will be outsourcing as much as I can

@JanisMoplin

Require is subjective. They dont really require them. We don't even really require most of these roles.

The roles were created and are done mostly by men with no real concern for their families. So they can kid themselves on its absolutely vital this project or email is done right now. How else do they justify the ridiculous wages?

The culture could easily be changed if the industry wanted it changed. If the govt / industries properly acknowledged that working these hours is unnecessary and harmful to most.

I dont think the op should give up her career but I do think we, as a society, should be looking at these kind of working practices and addressing why they are allowed.

Love this framing @wandlight and completely agree it is how you view it.

I read the death bef comments with comfort that whilst I work a lot of hours, I work in a role that gives a lot of broader satisfaction (think generic job in a socially worthwhile organisation) and that makes it much easier to deal with mentally!

I worked 37.5 hours, raised my DS and studied for a degree and I honestly dont know how I did it.

I remember doing laundry late at night and taking days off to completely clean the house.

I think being young helps.

I agree with everything you have said, especially that society should be looking at this. I just think it is very difficult for OP to change it on her own, as a cog in the wheel. These careers were designed for a time when men had sahm wives, and they haven't evolved. In fact, they have got worse as roles now have international responsibility and with everybody having to be available 24/7 for Zoom calls.

DH tried to extricate himself some years ago by taking a year long sabbatical and starting his own venture. But it failed, as the 2008 recession hit. He wants to give it another try, but the pandemic put paid to that, so we are waiting a couple of years.

Your hours, between the two of you, even with extra help, are crazy.

Things won’t improve unless you as a family, allow yourselves more time.

60 hours, and then your husband more, is crazy.

My husband and I are both working, senior professionals and between us, we didn’t work this many hours when they were so young.

Bear in mind also, kids get busier as they get older because they have more in the way of activities and social things too.

You can add in more household staff if you like, it will of course help, if that’s what you want.

I would just add to the people saying the kids need the OP more, in my experience doing a similar type of job, I see my kids the same or potentially even more than someone doing a 9-5 because all the extra hours I do are when they are asleep. Speaking for myself (and I think OP is similar) I’m with the kids 6-8.30 if I’m in the office or 6-9.30 if wfh, then I log off/am home for 5.45pm and give them their dinner, bath, bedtime stories. I log back on and do another 3-4 hours work once they’re asleep. They see me just as much as if I was in a low stress admin/PA role at my firm, but the difference is I have no time for myself in the evenings when they’re asleep.

because I’m pretty senior I can manage my own workload which means I can take time out during the day to go to my son’s nursery to see him do a performance, or take my DD for her vaccinations, and because I do this job we can afford a nanny which has loads of advantages for the kids. So it’s not as straightforward as assuming that kids with parents in less demanding jobs have a better life.

Thank you, @Polpetto , this is absolutely correct. I am with my kids between 6am to 8am every morning, then I am home by around 5.30/6.00pm to do bathtime and bedtime. Because I am senior, I can take time out during the working day to attend nursery events like sports day, the nativity play, or stay-and-play sessions, provided these are booked in by diary well in advance. As you say, the issue is not that I am not present for my DCs; rather it is that I have very little time for myself and I feel our domestic arrangements are a bit chaotic. It is clear to me from responses on this thread that the way to address that is to outsource more of my domestic arrangements, which I am in the course of doing already!

What is your organisation like generally in enforcing work life balance? Is everyone expected to work constantly or do you get comments about you being online too much.

I think you are around plenty for your kids but in the long term, working and caring for kids solidly will take its toll on you. What is your plan in the longer term? Are there any other companies around that promote a more balanced culture or is it the industry you're in?

I'm a single parent and find myself juggling too but the other parent has to do his fair share (he has the eow and two midweek nights). I'm not saying you should split with your dh at all but just consider how his world would change if he had no choice but to parent on his own and take on his share of responsibility.

Financial advantages never out weigh emotional advantages.
What about their needs to be well adjusted emotionally and to have time, unrushed time, with their parents.
Two parents working in that manner is not fair on those children and not due to need,but want!

@ChoiceMummy you have no idea about whether the OP’s kids are well-adjusted emotionally, or how rushed their time with their parents is.

Did you read my post where I explained how it works for us - ie all the extra hours are done once the kids are in bed - they seem me the same amount of time as if I had a standard 9-5 job, as all of my friends’ do. In fact, in our case, my DH works 4 days a week so they have a day with a parent - is this worse for them than if it were me doing 4 days?

And in comparison to my friends who do standard 9-5 jobs, their kids are in nursery whereas mine are at home and I can pop down and have lunch with them when im
working from home, and my son comes in for a chat when he’s home from nursery. My friend is a primary school teacher which everyone thinks is a family friendly job, but she leaves the house every day before her kids are even awake, and can never see them in the day in term time.

Do you think mothers with children shouldn’t work at all? Or shouldn’t work full time?

@Polpetto

Do you have a plan for when they no longer go to bed early and get up early?