To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

I think it's sad that people feel a need to break things down into "those things you're obliged to do because you've promised" and "those things that don't matter because you haven't promised". Surely we should try and avoid hurting others whenever we can, regardless of any contractual obligation!

I think you are missing the point. The world is filled with arseholes who don't care who they hurt but surely you should be more accountable if you made a promise and broke than if you made no such promise.

I don't think many people would argue that having an affair with someone you know is married is an honourable thing to do but the idea that men are essentially so vulnerable that they can accidentally find themselves bollock deep in any woman who smiles at them is nonsense. If you are married you, and you alone, are responsible for honouring your vows.

Bitterly apportioning blame to someone who made you no promises let's the guilty party share the blame. If you really don't think men are utterly pathetic creatures who are dictated to by the whims of their libido then there should be no problem holding them accountable for their shitty behaviour.

Well I disagree with you. I think being married (or to be fair a serious relationship) puts the man or woman off limits. They just aren’t available.

Its not two single people in a house or sharing a bed. Your intruding into their partners life. Same as if you were a friend busting in on an agreed house share. It’s rude. You don’t help yourself to any communal effort on the say of one person, unless you are sure everyone else has been consulted.

I think being married (or to be fair a serious relationship) puts the man or woman off limits. They just aren’t available.

It should if you are a halfway decent person.

I wasn't angry at the exes OW. She didn't know me, he is the one that was unfaithful.

I don't think there are right or wrong answers here, just people who think and feel differently in situations.

Not really commenting on what others choose to do but personally I’d not be with anyone who was married

I’m not single anyway, but if I was I’d not go there. If they want out of whatever relationship they’re in that’s up to them.

Marriage is a public declaration, so the vow of fidelity applies across the whole of society, to say otherwise is deliberately encouraging instability and being explicitly involved in destroying the union.
Basically, men and women who are married are out of bounds for others sexually.

You can be as ‘actively after’ a married man as you want, if he’s a decent guy he won’t cheat on his wife. Irrespective of who offers him what.

I wouldn’t rob a bank, even if the opportunity presented itself. Because I’m a decent person with integrity.

Spoken like someone who likes married men. Who wouldn't be angry at the OW? Botha re to blame. The husband, to a greater extent. If you like to shag married men, just own it, but don't cry for sympathy.

I'm not saying the cheating husband shouldn't be blamed too. If you read my OP I say they're both equally to blame.

Of course the OW can't "force" a man to cheat, but if she doesn't offer it up on a plate and intentionally seduce him, he's less likely to give in to his own (pathetic) weaknesses.

Oh please, a man, a husband, isn't helpless in the face of temptation. He isn't a possession to be argued over. He is a sentient human being.

Who makes choices.

Anything else is an insult to the men who do not stray, who find their happiness with their wife and family and are not interested in anything else.

@ventreàterre

To suggest that men should be protected from temptation takes us along a path towards women having to cover up to avoid exactly that, tempting a man.

Marriage is a public declaration made by two people, not the whole of society. I have never promised to have sex with only one person for the rest of my days. Other people making such promises does not mean I am obliged to adhere to those promises, it only means those making them are obliged to do so. With your ‘logic’ where does it end? If I make any sort of public declaration, does it automatically apply across the whole of society because I made it in public?

Those who feel they have no responsibility to anyone but themselves are always the loudest, the most belligerent and the most determined to say everyone else is like them. They can't face the reality that they're selfish and their actions damage other people so they have to convince themselves that everyone is like that. . . even when it's obviously untrue.

Hence you'll have posters saying they have affairs and don't feel guilty because they didn't make a commitment. But, actually, living in society means navigating lots of unwritten social conventions. You make commitments every single day to act in a way that doesn't harm other people.

It's a bit like saying if you're bigger than someone, then it's fine to beat them up. And the only reason you don't, is because it's against the law. Actually, there are lots of people who don't beat up smaller people because they see that as wrong behaviour. They don't need a room full of witnesses, signed paperwork and a legal framework to control their behaviour. Their decisions aren't just affected by fear of consequences.

But , as a PP said, if someone is posting on here - they can get distracted by the OW when really they need to deal with their relationship and their cheating partner.

@me4real

If someone gets involved with a married man, even if she's single, they are both committing adultery. I say that as someone who used to be an OW. It's not ok.

I absolutely understand the point you are trying to make but the simple fact is that you have to be married in order to commit adultery.

The unmarried partner is absolutely doing wrong. It's just not fitting the conditions for adultery.

I think if a woman makes an informed choice to have an affair with a married man with children, there is a need for some accountability on her part. Because it's a shitty thing to do and I don't think people should be given a free pass to do shitty things.

Marriage in the UK does not require a vow of fidelity.

I could be wrong, but I think a lot of times people say this because the victim of the infidelity is focusing their anger on the OW/OM rather than their husband. IT's easier to look outside and blame someone else while trying to make a go of it with your wife/husband - it's a form a collusion and very common. While the OW/OM may fall under the "do unto others as you wish to be done unto you" it doesn't change the fact that the wife/husband who cheated are the ones who broke their vows and the ones who promised to be with you forever (not the OW/OM) Common decency obviously comes into it but at the end of the day some people deflect their anger towards someone outside the marriage because it's easier than face their crumbling relationship (I've been there)

If you shag someone who has a spouse and children, then there is only one word for you. And it isn't a pleasant one.

@lightisnotwhite

. I think being married (or to be fair a serious relationship) puts the man or woman off limits. They just aren’t available.

And yet, and yet. Here we are discussing the adultery

Just out of interest, if one of the men in a gay marriage had an affair with another man outside the marriage, would you expect that other man to have the same regard for someone he'd never met as you expect women to do? Ok they might not have kids (but some gay couples do).

Somehow I think not.

The only person to blame for an affair is the person having the affair. Not the person they're having it with (of course, sometimes the OW is married herself).

Sexist nonsense.

I agree

She knows whst she is doing

@riesenrad that’s weird, of course I’d say the same about a man

Where’s my hard hat? Here goes:

When a husband cheats, none of the blame should leave the marriage.

YABU.

It's not that the OW isn't despicable. It's that the OW's morals are irrelevant. A million immoral wannabe OWs could throw themselves at your husband. The effect of that on you is determined only by your husband's response.

This is so true 👍