To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

I wouldn’t go as far to say I hated the ow or thought she owed me anything. I did however hate the fact that a woman could come into another woman’s home and shag their husband in her bed .
As for people saying the man is probably spinning them some shite about the wife like , we are only together for the kids etc . if you know someone is married/ in a relationship just don’t go there as you know full well it’s a load of crap . It just make justifying your actions easier.

The OW/OM is putting themselves in someone else's marriage, they don't get to decide how the cheated on person reacts.
Of course the cheating spouse is primarily to blame, but not solely.

We really do owe each other some basic human decency, I don't know what morals some people on here live by, but to me-in a relationship means off limits.

No shades of grey, none of this crap about how they were so unhappy...it was inevitable...

I think it depends how much the OW is aware of

if they didn’t know he was married then no she’s not at fault but if she is fully aware then yes that makes them morally very bad.

I think people owe each other basic decency and respect. Neither of this things hinge on knowing the spouse or having made promises to them, it's just going through life not being unnecessarily shitty towards other people! You can catch a person at a particularly rough time in their life and the attitude of the potential ow/om can be the difference between an affair happening or not!

So yes, I think the ow/om does owe something. None of that negates the primary responsibility of the spouse though.

If you already have a relationship with the OW then I think there is obligation and the betrayal can be almost as profound as that of your DP if she is, for instance, a sister or best friend.

Regardless of whether you know the OW I think the anger is understandable, but it's generally poorly aimed. If the woman is very close to you then the idea that they are equally to blame, just in different ways. - is frequently misogynistic crap.

The OW's understanding of your relationship with your DP will be based on what your DP has said, which could be anything. Whereas your DP's understanding will be based on your relationship. The OW has made no promise of fidelity to you, hasn't built up a relationship with you. Has no reason to put your needs/wants/desires ahead of her own. Your DP has made a promise of fidelity, your DP is supposed to put your needs/wants/desires ahead of others.

To think some random woman owes you the same level of care as your DP is way off base and a shockingly low expectation of a DP. Though in the aftermath of a betrayal it is easy to lash out at more peripheral players as it gives the illusion you can salvage the relationship you had before. Understandable, but not reasonable.

I agree with you OP. Especially as it is sometimes very obvious that the OW only started to flirt with the husband in order to spite his wife.

So women need to be unavailable so men don’t give into their lickle diddums weakness? If you’ve married a man so weak that he can’t control himself and you rely on other women to keep him faithful then you should thank your lucky stars to be rid of him.

why would any self respecting woman want to be available to married men?

*If the woman isn't very close

This notion that women aren’t responsible for men cheating is all very well, but it’s naive to say that there aren’t women who deliberately go after married men. yes the man is responsible for his part in the affair, and yes he would have cheated with someone else if she’d said no, but fact is that often she doesn’t say no. So is she blameless just because she actually went there and didn’t give him the chance to sleep with someone else instead.

The man is responsible for breaking his wedding vows, but the woman is responsible for sleeping with him. He cheated with her ergo she is a responsible party.

I used to know someone who deliberately went after married men. She liked the challenge, and she didn’t want a committed relationship. She knew none of the men would leave their wives for her, so she felt safe sleeping with them. Of course those men were responsible for sleeping with her, but she was a willing participant, so not exactly an innocent party.

A decent man wouldn’t cheat on his wife.

A decent woman wouldn’t seek to either seduce a man or be seduced by him.

why would any self respecting woman want to be available to married men?

Why is it important to understand the motives of women who have affairs with married men? Do you think you could stop all women doing this? Why aren't you asking how an unfaithful spouse could do such a thing; hurting the person they claim to love most and potentially destroying their family all for a bit of excitement.

If anyone has found a way to control the behaviour of the rest of the human race in a way that pleases them could you let me know your secret?

If someone gets involved with a married man, even if she's single, they are both committing adultery. I say that as someone who used to be an OW. It's not ok.

I was the OW once, an very long time ago. His wife was not my concern at all. I didn’t know her, she wasn’t my friend, I had never made any vows to her. She was a complete irrelevance and I never felt the slightest bit guilty. Why would I?

If she felt betrayed, it was by the person who made public vows to her, not by me, and that was his problem, not mine.

I think putting blame on the OW is a way of excusing their husbands for some women- "he wouldn't have strayed if it wasn't for her pursuing him" which is obviously balls in most cases. I also think it's worth remembering that men deceive the OW as much as they deceive their wives and often pretend that their marriage is effectively over anyway when it is anything but. Best not to believe men who say things like this as it's almost invariably rubbish.

I agree wholeheartedly, both parties are to blame and both parties know they are doing wrong and need to take responsibility for their actions.
The only person who suffers is the partner being cheated on.

A friend described it to me as the 'girl code' - that we shouldn't do that to someone even if we don't know her.

And of course it is wrong anyway.

I agree OP. People need to take responsibility for their actions and if those actions hurt other people then they are morally in the wrong.

You sound completely heartless and unsympathetic.
Yes the husband broke his vows and that is his responsibility to keep but how could you have a relationship with someone knowing another person was involved and would be getting hurt?
Also it’s not always about vows is it? Being a decent human being means being loyal and kind to those around us, that would extend to not having an affair with someone who is already in a relationship.
The people cheating are equally responsible for their actions, anyone who feels no guilt for their actions has a very skewed moral compass.

Yes I would think this is a relative rarity, whereas I've been hit on by married men countless times. If I had acted on the advances of these men, it would have been in the full knowledge that they were married, but they were the ones instigating. I can see how a woman might get into a torrid affair having fallen for one of these cheats.

A lot of men seem to do this, whereas I don't know any women who do. Which is not to say they don't exist of course.

My point is that confining yourself to men who are single is a decent thing to do.

Much of my behaviour in life is based on actions that are, I hope, fundamentally right. I might let someone cross a road in front of me, not because I've signed a contract to vow that I will, but because it's a kind thing to do. I might let someone with 2 items go in front of me at a supermarket check out, not because I've made a vow to do so, but because it's a kind thing to do. If a child walked past me and dropped a toy, I would move to ensure I didn't step on it and break it. I have no obligation to do that. It's not my child, it's not my toy, it's not my fault. It might be inconvenient to step out of the way. But the rules of decency dictate that I wouldn't want to cause needless pain to a stranger if I could possible help it.

I think it's sad that people feel a need to break things down into "those things you're obliged to do because you've promised" and "those things that don't matter because you haven't promised". Surely we should try and avoid hurting others whenever we can, regardless of any contractual obligation!

Obviously women who've been lied to aren't included in this. No one can be blamed for having a relationship with a married man who claims to be single.

Spoken like a women that has been cheated on and is now bitter

Right then, sisters, I shall be seducing and eventually fucking as many married men than I can fit in a fortnight.
I would be rather good at it, I promise.
Once you find out, send your cheating spouse to the wall and then we could do drinkies and compare the notes.
How are you feeling now, knowing there's a fellow human, a woman, part of sisterhood and all that malarkey, actively after your chubby, middle aged balding DH, who'll think all his birthdays have come once as he hasn't received so much attention, admiration and filthy innuendo for yonks.
It is alright, isn't it?
🙄

If the OW is your friend, or sister, or mother, then for sure she owes you something. She betrayed you, abused your relationship with her. But a woman you don't know? She is nothing to you and you are nothing to her. Her relationship is with your husband. Getting with a married man is a shitty thing to do in general, but she's not betraying you.

If another woman offered herself naked to my husband I would expect him to refuse because that’s what being married is all about. It’s in the wording for god’s sake ‘forsaking all others’.

The woman in this hypothetical situation hasn’t promised me shit so while it is pretty grim and not the standard of behaviour I would expect from myself, I wouldn’t blame her for not having any loyalty to an unknown woman.

Not sure if that's directed at me, but I've never been cheated on and I've never been married. I have, however, had a brief fling with a man who was allegedly single, but turned out to be married. I felt awful, especially as I subsequently met his wife and she clearly had no idea what he was telling people.

I agree with you. We all owe it to each other to not deliberately hurt each other.