To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

I agree with you. My husband’s brother left his wife of over 20 years and children and took up with a woman over 20 years younger, who by all accounts had been throwing herself at him at his place of work. It’s like he’s taken leave of all his senses. His children want nothing to do with him and he now plays daddy to the girlfriend’s children. The girlfriend spends her time crowing on social media about what a fantastic partner he is to her, and father figure to her children.
She’s like the cat that got the cream, it’s disgusting. The posts are endless.

Obviously he’s responsible for his own actions and poor selfish decision making, but I can’t help thinking what kind of a woman deliberately throws herself at, and targets a man who she knows is married. It’s a shitty thing to do and I think it says a lot about what kind of woman you are, if you can behave like that.

Yanbu

i wonder about people who think an ow owes the wife nothing

if I’m walking down the street and see an old lady fall over and hit her head - well - apparently I owe her nothing and can just walk away and ignore her?

humanity?
decency?

the ow certainly owes the wife those (not to mention owing them to herself). We all owe these things to eachother - but the more people are on the receiving end of shitty behaviour, the less humanity and decency they will be inclined to treat others with

every time someone is nasty or deceitful, it chips away at our collective humanity

It's collusion & denial and its damaging.

I don't think they are equally to blame- the husband most likely was spinning a yarn about how he had a sexless loveless marriage.... But I would think very little of a woman who knowingly had sex with a married man. (Or man with a woman etc of course). I ditched a friend because she gleefully told me about her affair. Not values I can respect at all.

And yes it is particularly grotty when there are children in the marriage.

I don't blame the ow in the slightest.

She was desperate for a man. It didn't matter that he was married with three kids with varying special needs to him so why would it matter to her.
Now, I would say I could never have an friendship with such a woman and morally, she is somewhere between the bowels and base of society , IMO but her fault, no!
All on him.
I believe that a man who can do that to his wife and family will never sleep peacefully again knowing that the woman he has hooked up with has those types of morals but I also believe that a woman who hooks up with such a man never sleeps either knowing that he is capable of that.

To use an old cliche ... they belong together as anyone else is too good for them.

*A decent man wouldn’t cheat on his wife.

A decent woman wouldn’t seek to either seduce a man or be seduced by him*

I agree with this.

I think there’s an element of people finding their level. I wouldn’t want to be involved with a married man who is cheating, either as his mistress or his wife.

YABVU it's misogynist to blame the other woman and absolves you from taking any responsibility for choosing a shitty husband and for not noticing the signs sooner.

It's collusion & denial and its damaging

Of course. I wouldn’t recommend staying with a cheat. However whether it’s because of love or finances it’s a benefit of marriage that both are responsible for the relationship.
The OW can be pitied, hated or reviled. She doesn’t get a say in how the wife chooses to react.

I wouldn't care if if a women was literally offering a ONS by sticking it under my DP's nose. It's my DP who can choose (or not) to turn the women down.

Saying its equally the OW fault is like saying 'awww poor men, they can never turn sex down' and actually dilutes their part in the situation.

The OW and my ex husband ran off with each other. At the time this happened the OW definitely knew that ex husband and I had two young children aged 4 and 5 (at the time they left). She has been nothing but blatently gloating and dismissive of me, even tho we basically never see each other or have any contact. For example in front of my children, if they ever speak about me in her presence she will say in a super sarcastic voice "Good for her" - so obviously that even my young children picked up on it and reported it back to me as they got the nuance.
She also spends a lot of time kind of raising half an eyebrow about my children (eg marks they get at school, which incidentally are quite good, but of course never as good as the marks she alledgedly got when at school). She implied to my ex husband that she could do a far better job of raising children. When she had her own baby, apparently she hates the responsiblity and is always trying to palm their child (now a toddler) off on my ex husband....... hmmmmmm

As the OW I would call her utterly and totally shameless and brazen.

No, she doesn't but a husband/wife who holds on to that is only damaging themselves.

Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies

My Ex H left me for OW BTW

I had an OM once, a very long time ago. He wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by the fact I was married. Neither was I. However, I was very much more to 'blame' than the OM was. The OM didn't know my husband or family and owed them nothing.

I would, however, say that affairs rarely come out of the blue and are almost always to do with something having gone seriously wrong with the primary relationship. I had an affair for many reasons, many - but not all - related to my husband's behaviour, and would have another one now if I were in that situation again. My husband was never unfaithful, but what he did was far worse. It was that which broke up the marriage, not my infidelity.

So you can very quickly get onto tricky ground if you start apportioning blame to an affair...

A man is a human. A car is an object.

Cars don't go around trying to get bumped like some men do 😆

CottonGoods, pleased with yourself much?

So the OW's behaviour is absolutely fine, and not worthy of any criticism because it's all on him?

It's like blaming the chocolate for me eating it. Oh, it was so tempting, just sitting there all available, so smooth sweet and smelled delicious. Yes, yes, it's totally the chocolate's fault that I succumbed.

Agree with this.

I understand the anger felt but it's the cheating partner who is deserving of it. They and them along made the decision to cheat. If they had any sense of loyalty to their partner they would say no even offered on a plate. They are not helpless, if they choose to act on that offer that's on them and them alone.

I seriously don't get people falling over themselves to defend the OW. Unless she thought he was single, she is laughing at you. She enjoys asking sex with your husband and bringing she's more attractive than you.

The man (in this case) is the gatekeeper -most level headed people know that- but why the need to defend someone like this, I don't understand. Such a person wouldn't give you a second thought and yet...

I can only assume those posts are all from women who've cheated or been with married men.

The majority of the blame definitely lies with the partner but it is callous to know that the other person is in a relationship and to be still willing to carry on. On the other hand, the other person has to know that there is every chance that the person would do it to them given half a chance.

Irrespective of whether the vows are taken in front of 2 or 2000 witnesses, they’re still vows made by two individuals on their own behalf, and not on the behalf of wider society. They make promises about their own behaviour, not mine or anybody else’s. Nobody has my permission to make a promise on my behalf. The ‘ethical obligations between the two and others (public)’ that you talk about are obligations on the married couple, not anybody else. You may wish that marital vows confer ethical and other obligations on random strangers, but the fact is that they don’t.

Why would any self respecting woman make herself available to a man who literally cannot resist the approaches of any other woman at any time and will only be faithful so long as he has no other options?

“Equally” at fault is surely not true?

OK, the OW owes huh human decency but the cheating DH owes you far, far more than that. He’s the one that made vows, promised you a life together, has children / a house / commitments etc etc with you. To blame both equally diminishes what the husband has done.

But chocolate doesn't have a brain and can't think for itself , so of course it can't be blamed! OWs make choices.

This is just more misogynistic bullshit perpetuated by the vile patriarchal society we live in! Get women to blame other women for men cheating. You'd think it impossible but nope.

This is it, exactly.
I'm astounded that so many people don't see it that way. They're totally fixated on what people technically owe each other. No thought for basic human decency.