To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

If I discovered a man I was seeing was married I would end it immediately. I fail to understand any woman who could continue, knowing that he was married. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that either. Obviously the cheat is the most disgusting of the two but the OW is no innocent.

Did she sneak into these three men’s homes and force them to sleep with her? Or did she flirt and these three men (one of whom had a newborn baby) decide to have sex with someone else and betray their wives? This woman (despicable as she sounds) didn’t split up three families. Three men decided to sleep with a woman they weren’t married to.

It’s said because the other woman really doesn’t owe the wife anything. The husband does, contractually. ‘Owing’ in the moral sense is entirely subjective, and while you may feel that she owes the wife something, she’s quite free to ignore that.

that doesn’t mean the wife shouldn’t be, or won’t be, angry with the OW though. Someone doesn’t have to owe you something in order for you to be raging at them.

I think it depends, in my case, I didn't know her and she didn't know me. It's a shitty thing to do but it wasn't personal. Also, I have no idea what he told her. He's the one who hurt me, she's irrelevant really. However if the OW had been a friend or something I'd have absolutely held her to account.

Of course the OW can't "force" a man to cheat, but if she doesn't offer it up on a plate and intentionally seduce him, he's less likely to give in to his own (pathetic) weaknesses. It's a shitty thing to do.

I'd compare it to putting a loaded gun into the hands of someone you know is feeling murderous. You aren't forcing them to pull the trigger, but you're knowingly tempting him, creating mayhem just for the cheap thrill of it. If you didn't make it easy, maybe it would never have happened.

Both are equally to blame. Although such things are common the pain for s spouse (male or female) and any children involved can be enormous and worlds can be torn apart. I know people who have never recovered properly. I would encourage anyone never to go down the route of an affair. There are plenty of single people around and if you are that unhappy in a marriage- finish it first.

She didn't cheat on me, he did. All he had to do was say "no", so IMO the blame lies with him.

So women need to be unavailable so men don’t give into their lickle diddums weakness? If you’ve married a man so weak that he can’t control himself and you rely on other women to keep him faithful then you should thank your lucky stars to be rid of him.

If a man’s fidelity is contingent on him not having opportunities or temptation to cheat, that fidelity is worth fuck all.

He should be faithful because he wants to be so, not because nobody has ‘offered it on a plate’ to him.

If I was somehow given the opportunity to rob a bank, with no consequences for me, I still wouldn’t do it, because I have integrity and am not a thief.

YABU and YANBU.

YABU because the person who made the commitment is most to blame and cheaters tend to lie (so the OW may have been told he's single etc).

But YANBU because there is sometimes an undercurrent on threads that you can't expect a single person to look into the person they're dating or to walk away from someone who is married. imo it's a very infantilising view of single people. Most single people I know (male and female) don't think married individuals are fair game. The ones who do and purposefully pursue married people have absolutely been equally responsible for the resulting affairs.

I completely agree with you op, it really annoys me when people say the the ow isn't to blame and owes you nothing. Yes she is bloody well to blame if she knows she's getting involved and even worse if he's got children.

Mumsnet is so weird about this kind of stuff though. Like a pp said according to most of mumsnet no one owes anyone anything.

This in spades! Come on - men who cheat are very capable of chasing, lying and manipulating - they aren't just innocently walking around and a woman jumps them!

I agree with you OP. I think women should respect their fellow women way better

I think both parties are in the wrong, but not equally.

To continue with the car park analogy the 'other woman' is like someone who leaves their trolly in the supermarket car park. They know it might cause problems but that's probably not the aim and, if it does scratch your car, it's not personal. The cheating husband is like someone who grabs a trolly and rams it into your car to cause deliberate damage.

The married partner is most at fault but the affair partner also holds responsibility for their own actions.

Anyone who would knowingly engage with married person is morally repugnant and deserves the scorn and anger of those they hurt with their actions.

Saying “I don’t owe you anything” is a pathetic attempt to be able to be selfish, uncaring and damaging to others without facing the consequences of your actions.

In the context of here on MN, that advice is usually given out when a poster has just caught their partner cheating and is asking for advice.

It's good advice NOT to waste energy at that time directing anger where it's not going to be productive.

In a theoretical discussion - yes, i agree, both members of an affair have accountability. But there aren't many of those discussions on MN, it's usually a real time real life situation.

What does the OW owe though? The husband made the vows, he’s cheated and if he’s a cheat then the other women is irrelevant, if it’s not her it’s gonna be the next woman and the next.

It’s easy to blame everyone the husband sleeps with but that just redirects the anger and he somehow gets away with it, which happens so often on this site, honestly it goes from I’v seen msg to leave him to ok if you’re staying then it’s all her fault.
Never mind that he’s the one with the commitments and the one that’s broken the trust., the wife is always the one that blames OW while he gets away with it, if my husband had an affair it’s him I would blame.

Yanbu but not equally as angry at the OW than the man. Also it depends on whether the OW knew he was with someone or not. If not then I couldn't be angry at her.

Both parties are wrong, the married person is very wrong.

I've never knowingly been with anyone who was in a relationship.

Some women think they're sexy as fuck and irresistible to married men, they improve the man's life because his wife doesn't understand him, it validates them.

Apparently, they'll be happy if I slam a door in their face because I never promised to hold it open. It's ridiculous. Most Mumsnet terms must be robots with no feelings. Woman shags your husband - well, it's not her fault whatsoever!

Like, sure, he's more to blame. A lot more. But no way is she innocent and if you think she is, you're a total mug.

I think it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes the man is not entirely honest with the OW and will claim he is separating from his wife or that the relationship is ending they are just together for the kids etc. The OW might be in too deep before she actually knows the full truth. A reminder that men who cheat are very good liars which in itself is a big warning sign.

To knowingly have an affair with someone who is married is reprehensible behaviour but there is little point in directing anger at the OW, she didn't make promises or vows to the betrayed spouse or partner.

Why do we behave as if men are victims of their own libido and blame other women if they are unfaithful. If you believe that an unfaithful husband only strays when temptation is put in his way then you have married someone you consider incapable of honouring their marriage vows without the sisterhood policing men's morality. Do we make the same excuses for unfaithful women?

This woman (despicable as she sounds) didn’t split up three families. Three men decided to sleep with a woman they weren’t married to.

Sure, she's still not a nice person and the partner has every right to be pissed. That's all anyways saying, not that OWs should pay in blood.

Not read all your responses OP but I completely agree with you. Any woman could sleep with a married man, it’s not a talent. The difference is some of us have a moral code and empathy for other people. Sex is just sex and cock isn’t in limited supply the last time I checked. Most of them are very insecure women having a selfish power trip in my opinion.

I think both are to blame really. Some men seem to be wanting their cake and to eat it.Lots of women (esp younger ones) swallow the promises made of "leaving their wife" often wait around for years to no avail.So he has often spoilt 2 womens lives .