Attempted upskirting by delivery man

[upskirting]

Bizarre and shocking experience today, thanks to a delivery man working for a large well known delivery firm acting on behalf of a major U.K. retailer.

He "had to tie his shoelaces" three times in the 5ish mins he and his male colleague were here. I was home alone. Each time he moved uncomfortably close to me and then knelt on the floor and put his phone camera-up on the floor next to him. I felt uncomfortable but couldn’t believe that he was trying anything.

The third time I was in an area like a utility room, and he'd knelt in front of the doorway, essentially blocking me in... and then said, oh sorry, i'm blocking you! He moved himself but not the phone, which I would have had to step over or close to over, to get past into the main room. Fortunately I had the good sense to stay where I was.

AIBU that this man should lose his job? As should his colleague, who clearly knew what was going on? And also, WWYD now, if you were me?

I asked a police officer friend. They said they would absolutely be interested in this and it is a crime.

Does anyone on your street have outside cameras. Even if you got the reg plate that should be enough. They are playing games and are hoping that you will just drop it. You have given them a chance to do the right thing so if you haven't already done so, I would definitely put it on social media and link them. Time to involve the police also.

On your paperwork does it have his name?

Hopefully they can track who it was from your order/invoice number. It might take them a while though. It's good to flag though, perhaps someone else has already made a complaint or perhaps next week someone else will and that will lead to a disciplinary and sacking.

I know companies like DPD have an app and on the app it gives the name of the delivery person. Does the delivery company they work for have an app, anything in the email?

Sorry this has happened to you. I think I probably would have had the exact same reaction to be fair!

I don't agree that it's just OP's word against his. OP's account is very convincing, and he's just some random man - no reason for OP to have made this up about him

because he could argue that he was genuinely having lace problems,for all we know he could have being. And yes whilst it may be convincing it's still not hard evidence, he could argue that she was mistaken.

Not necessarily. If this is his particular paraphilia I'm sure there would be lots of evidence on his devices

ofcourse but people are going on here as if the op's statement is enough hard evidence to convict him when really it isn't.

I was once asked to step outside while a delivery man took a photo of me holding a parcel. Like an idiot I did

Don't some companies ask people to do this though as proof it was delivered?

So? How many rapists deny raping women?
How many abusers deny hitting their wives?

Should we not bother reporting crime unless we’ve had a signed agreement with the perpetrator that they’ll admit to it?

Also if you make a complaint to the company if anyone else complains in the future it’s in record. He knows his sleazy criminal actions have been recognised and noted.

Bloody outrageous

Your instincts are right and thanks for highlighting this so other women can be aware

Why does he have his phone out on the job anyway

The cheek of him

That is awful op, and glad you have reported it. I don't suppose you have a ring or similar recording doorbell? If you do, and you have the videos saved you should be able to get a good shot of the mens faces. I really hope the company and the police take it seriously, but I think unless you peruse it it will get brushed under the carpet

I would have the same concerns! There’s no way they don’t have a record of who is delivering what furniture and where.

Your statement is evidence.

Yes they do, but all they need is a photo of the parcel inside an open door. I let them put the parcel on the mat and then stand well back, or behind the door while they photograph it, being sure they can’t get both me and the parcel in the same shot. My local DPD driver, who is great, told me I could do this the first time he needed to take a photo rather than have me sign, and I was a bit ??? about it. I’ve read so many accounts of women getting their confirmation photo which basically shows that they were the subject of the photo, and the parcel was pretty much by the by, that some of these drivers are definitely collecting galleries of pics of women.

I’ve read so many accounts of women getting their confirmation photo which basically shows that they were the subject of the photo, and the parcel was pretty much by the by, that some of these drivers are definitely collecting galleries of pics of women

meh wouldn't bother me to be honest; it's a photo with me fully clothed so who cares? Bit of a stretch to think all of these drivers were doing so to collect collections of pics for their own gratification.

Seriously?? They have your address too, possibly your phone number. It's creepy at best. I don't want to be in some creep's w*nk bank and I don't want him passing my photo, personal details and location to his buddies or colleagues. If his character is so low as to do it in the first place it wouldn't be stretching to think he could do worse.

I always step to one side of the door when they take those photos in any case, not because I've necessarily picked up shifty vibes from these blokes, but simply because I don't want my picture taken.

The upskirting scenario described on this thread is in a different ballpark, however. It's the brazenness that is so concerning here, not only for the fact that targeting the victim in her own home is a major boundary overstep, but also that that he apparently didn't even attempt to hide what he was doing and no doubt would have had some excuse dreamed up, had she challenged him, along the lines of plausible deniability. This will doubtless be the same line of defence used when or if he's challenged by his employer.

Something about the sheer boldness and assumption of the 'right' to behave in this way is quite alarming. It's almost a given that he's done this and got away with it before. Once they are emboldened in this way, men like this WILL escalate. It's the 'normalizing' of this behaviour, making the (always) female targets out to be paranoid or imagining things, that's making this boldness so much more common of late. IME, it's been noticeably more common since lockdown.

The handmaidens and cool girls who populate these threads, informing any women who raise concerns about such obviously inappropriate behaviour that they're 'man haters', gives a clue as to what women are up against every single time we challenge such behaviour. No, it isn't the 'fault' of those women, it's the fault of the men who perpetrate these acts. But they certainly don't help.

The bad news is that colluding with the patriarchy won't rescue you from it. These women will be despised just as much as those who say 'no'. Just who, exactly, benefits from this?

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Seriously?? They have your address too, possibly your phone number. It's creepy at best. I don't want to be in some creep's wnk bank and I don't want him passing my photo, personal details and location to his buddies or colleagues. If his character is so low as to do it in the first place it wouldn't be stretching to think he could do worse*

Men generally wank over nude women, women standing holding a parcel is hardly erotic now unless she's wearing a bikini. And even if he has your details-what exactly is he going to do with them? Sorry but you sound a tad paranoid.

@SurfBox oh thanks for setting me straight, men only find scantily dressed women attractive and being unnerved that a creep has your address is paranoia.

@SurfBox has clearly and luckily never had experience of a stalker.

has clearly and luckily never had experience of a stalker

eh millions of deliveries are done daily in the uk by delivery men, they see the women of the house often when doing so and have their address and contact number. How often do you hear of them coming back to stalk her?>

I am sorry but that sounds like paranoid nonsense.

www.boredpanda.com/what-were-you-wearing-sexual-assault-art-exhibition/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

You’re either delusional, on a wind up or stupid.

Men who do this kind of thing aren’t wanking over the women. They’re getting off on the power of knowing where these women live. Of knowing they could over power them in their own home etc.

They don’t care what the women are wearing. They fantasise about the power and control.

All your posts on this thread have turned my stomach.

Page one of a Google search for ‘woman stalked by delivery driver’. Not paranoia.

I don’t want to engage any further with you. Of course this sort of thing doesn’t happen to everyone, but you can’t tell in advance which ones are the men who will do this sort of thing.

With the amount of victim blaming and disbelief shown even on this thread, it’s no wonder that women will try to avoid situations which make them vulnerable to exploitation, is it?

I once answered the door to a food delivery in my joggers and wearing no make up after moving house that day.
The delivery man then sent me explicit messages for weeks afterwards. Every time I blocked the number he’d message me from a new number.
One night he messaged to say that he saw my boyfriend’s van wasn’t on the drive so did I want company while my boyfriend was at work.
They don’t care how you look. They just like that you’re terrified in your own home.

@GrinAndVomit you've surely misquoted me? My response was to SurfBox flippant attitude towards this.