Was I too harsh on teen daughter?

[MumofTeen22]

NC for this.

Backstory: teen DD (15) - a few months off turning 16 - is really, really lazy. I have to beg and bribe and nag to get her to help with the smallest of tasks at home. It's draining. All she wants to do it be out with her mates and asks for cash and lifts everywhere etc.

This whole week I've been off work sick with an awful tummy bug / virus. It's absolutely wiped me and youngest DC out (toddler who I am home looking after whilst trying to keep on top of household tasks etc). DH has been working long hours all week. I've had to hold onto kitchen counters at points to steady myself and try not to pass out whilst trying to get jobs done and look after my youngest, I've felt so ill with this bug. But I've had no choice but to keep going.

Teen DD has not offered much by the way of help despite seeing how unwell me and her younger sibling are. At a couple of points I begged her to help as I was really struggling and she did so, but very reluctantly.

Yesterday she announced "I'm out with my mates tomorrow, I'll get the bus to meet them" (bus to the nearest major city from where we live). I said that was fine so long as she didn't rely on lifts from me as I'm not well enough. She said nothing about Sunday and to be honest I was distracted with bathing the youngest so didn't ask what her plans were on Sunday.

So she went off out this morning before youngest DC and I got up. DH at work doing overtime as we need to money. So as per usual I'm just getting on with it all - housework and looking after youngest etc. But still struggling as not feeling great.

Teen messages me about holiday clothes purchases so I reply. I then say "by the way please don't make any plans for tomorrow as I'm going to need your help at home, I'm really behind with the housework this week as I've been ill and DH working again". She texts back: "I've got plans tomorrow with my boyfriend, it's been arranged for ages". I replied: "well you're not going, I need your help".

She then called me saying how it wasn't fair, this has been planned for ages etc. i just snapped at this point - probably a combination of feeling so rough and her selfish lazy attitude all the time. I would never have agreed to todays outing if I'd known she had plans Sunday - I'd have made it clear she needed to be around on at least one of the days to help out.

I said to her "Listen to me - you either get yourself home before 5pm today (this was at 2.50pm) and pull your weight and do some jobs, or you can forget about going out tomorrow and help me then instead. You've got just over 2 hours to get here. Your choice. But don't think I'm going to change my mind - one minute past 5 and you're not going. I'm serious."

Then i hung up.

By the way 2 hours is plenty of time on public transport to get home if she had started to make her way home straight away or within the next 10 mins.

So AIBU to have given her this ultimatum of making a choice: she either loses her day out tomorrow and helps out at home, or gets herself home at a reasonable time today and helps out, and keeps her outing tomorrow?

She's since messaged to say she's on route and it will be "just past 5" when she's home, followed by a "sorry".

Was I harsh??

i bet there's an age difference between those who say teens should be expected to act like they are part of a family and pull their weight, and those who talk about them as if they are toddlers, of whom nothing can be expected, yet they get to do what they want.

OP I hope you have stopped sobbing I hope your DH will give you a big hug.

@MumofTeen22
You did nothing wrong.
My DS (the same age as your DD) is lazy and entitled as well.

When he was growing up it was so much easier and quicker to do whatever it was myself and of course you end up paying the piper.

But he's coming down to earth with a bump because now he has to help out otherwise he doesn't get a lift or any spending money.

Be firm with her you can reverse this (and now is the time to do it),

no you are not harsh OP. How else are people (teens)! supposed to learn to consider other people except themselves?

if my family are ill, i would cancel anything to be there for them - applies to teenagers too else they will turn into shitbags at 20_+ !!

The other thing is that so many posters seem to say that because the OP hasn’t taught her DD to do chores, it’s unreasonable of her to suddenly change this. WTF? A nearly 16 year old is plenty grown up enough to understand that sometimes expectations change.

I bet if the deputy head at school suddenly asked the DD to help clean something up or help in some way or to do a task out of the ordinary, the DD would be able to cope with that idea.

The thread reminds me of nothing so much as my mum’s friends who used to say things like their husband couldn’t possibly be asked to help out in the house, because he had got so used to not being expected to do so that he would really “struggle to adjust” to any “modern expectations” that he should do any housework. Funnily enough though I’ve always worked in male dominated fields, and I can tell you that most men have zero problems adjusting to new expectations quick smart when a male boss demands them. They cannot adjust fast enough most of the time tbh. 🤣

Ditto most kids seem to manage to adjust to new tasks and expectations, or to put themselves out a bit, when asked at school, or by friends, or in the pursuit of something they really want. If a neurotypical, healthy 15 year old is really not at all able to understand that maybe she needs to help a bit and her mum is also entitled to change the pattern and her expectations, then I’d be very surprised indeed. Why would we want to infantilise teenagers like that?

I teach young adults 18-25 and I see all sorts of the ways their brains are still maturing at that age, but none of those skills they’re still developing then is being able to switch a dishwasher on or sort the laundry, or understand that mum is vomiting and can’t therefore do everything in the house that week.

16 year olds throughout history have worked, had families themselves and so on and compared to that, OP’s DD is experiencing an extended childhood almost undreamt of by almost everyone in history before about 1980. The idea that it’s a terrible terrible infringement of her right to her fun, to ask her to pull her finger out occasionally, is really really bizarre!

agree with badhappening and GettingItOutThere.
OP, you were firm, for once, as you needed to be.
hope you feel better soon.

And what has her dad contributed during the week after he's finished work regarding the cleaning and the cooking? He's doing overtime, so it's your eldest daughters responsibility to ensure the house runs smoothly? Do they both have the same dad? Whilst I understand wanting some help, you don't mention what help DH has given- surely he could have had the house tidied up after work?

Reading some of the replies on here I can see why some of the student accommodation my daughter cleans, as part of her job, are in left in such a disgusting mess by the students at the end of the tenancies. Not just a little grubby and dusty but downright vomit inducing filth.
She has a contract with an estate agency to do end of tenancy cleans in student accommodation blocks, the state the of the toilets and showers, baths, kitchens fridges, have to be seen to believed.

@SD1978

I have mentioned numerous times what DH has done / is doing / plans to do for the family. If you read all of my posts you'll find all the info you need in there.

Thanks for some of the more recent more sensible (and empathic) replies. I've sat and had a good chat and cry with DH and feeling much better now. Off to bed and hoping tomorrow is better all round.

honeybushbunch has nailed it. absolutely. babyfication.
i can imagine what some of my african and asian friends would say, emoji of steam coming out of ears.
well the situation just wouldn't occur.
duty is not a dirty word. why do some mothers think making themselves into slaves for their children is virtuous.
do they really think it benefits the children.
the purpose of parenting is to keep the children alive initially and then to push them out of the nest.
but they must be able to fly.

And surely you could have RTFT, or even OP's posts, where this is explained.

Night OP...glad things are a bit brighter. Tomorrow will be better!

@EarringsandLipstick - I have- and whilst her step dad is doing voluntary overtime for 2 days, there is all the other days, with no mention on whether he has done much to help.

It's so sad that 'family life' is so badly regarded.

Your daughter should be helping you.

That you are so poorly that you are struggling to cope and with a sick toddler too, means that your daughter needs to step up, and not focus on her boyfriend.

You were not too harsh on her. Far from it.

OP... your only unreasonable action here was to post in AIBU.

It's no longer a place to get a balanced opinion but simply a waiting room for those enjoy spotting someone who is down and then giving them a bloody good kicking.

As to the teenager - there have been better thought out ways to handle such issues but at the heart of it, wanting your almost adult daughter to start considering other peoples needs and offering a bit of help to those who work their arses off to help and support her is hardly harsh or unreasonable.

Use this weeks illness and her behaviour as a catalyst for discussion about the family, about what should be expected of each other - when you're up to it.

Try not to make it soley about her failures.. so things like:

'I didn't realise until I was horribly ill and couldn't do all the things, just how much stuff I was actually doing - please can you help?'

Rather than:

'You do bugger all you lazy piece and I am fed up of it'.

And...

'Here's a list of jobs that need doing each week, if you could do X number of them, then I can afford to give you X pocket money. If not, I'll need to pay a cleaner with that money.'

Not...

'You are an ungrateful little wossit and im sick of picking up after you so theres no more pocket money til you do jobs round the house'.

But those things are sit down conversations and not 'at the end of your tether over the phone when she's out with her mates' conversations!

Have some more wine OP.. possibly some posh crisps or a cake too!

@SD1978

Final post for you, before I sleep, reposted from 16:19 today. I said:

Her step dad does enough for this family already as per my previous posts. He works very long shifts which she benefits from, he offers her lifts before and after his shifts , he often cooks meals after his shifts, he does night wakings with the little one etc etc.

That help?

I did say if you read all my (very numerous) posts you'd find the answers you wanted.

I was actually trying to be nice. I do agree your daughter should help more, but the way you went about it in this situation was a bit full on. I was only telling you about my experience, because it would be sad for your daughter to feel the same.

I do think if you come onto MN looking for opinions, you need to brace yourself for the good, the bad and the ugly, but also respect others when they disagree with you.You may not agree with them, but it's what you've asked for. There are a lot that are few that are frankly disgusting about you not loving her etc. But don't retaliate.

You need to have a sit down with your daughter and discuss what is expected of her.

It may not be the case with you, but I know some divorced/separated parents don't like being too harsh on their children, as they don't want to be the bad one. It doesn't end well.
I ended my long term relationship, as my ex had 2 DD. He didn't expect them to do any chores around the house, despite having them 50% of the time, as he was afraid they wouldn't want to come round anymore. Their mother didn't get them to do any jobs as that house was an absolute pigsty, and she didn't do any herself. Naturally when the 2 girls came to ours they treated it like a pigsty and muggins here was left picking up the pieces. I left. Best thing I ever did.

Sadly the 2 girls have no idea how to look after their own things, surroundings and expect others to do it. They are teenagers now, and it's too late to teach them as they're not interested.

@WiddlinDiddlin
Thank you - sound advice!

OP has said exactly what he does, and that he's hands on. You clearly didn't read v closely.

I’m very much a MN spectator but some of the PPs have been such cunts to the OP that it’s hard to say nothing.

OP - you are understandably at your wits end after a horrible week. I think you already appreciate that you probably could have gone about things differently but nothing you have said has warranted the vitriol you have received from some PPs who clearly have a lot of shit going on in their own lives - happy people rarely spout venom on strangers. Go to bed knowing that while you may have not got things perfectly right today, you love your family and they clearly know that you love them - there’s no doubt in my mind that your DD knows you love her from some of the things you have posted.

Mum of a 17yo here....I don't think you're at all harsh to expect her to do chores, and to be considerate and respectful. Sometimes teens need to be read the riot act. It does them no harm at all, on occasion, to be reminded that they are not the only person in the world and that they are acting like a selfish little piglet.

The one thing I would say is - she had no control over your bringing another DC into the family dynamic, and you should not expect her to assume the care of a toddler sibling (even if you are ill) simply because you wanted to have another child. General chores yes, absolutely, but it's not her fault that you wanted another baby.

I think her behaviour is totally to be expected, and I think your response to it was fine.

We're allowed as parents to get frustrated and upset with normal teen selfishness. We can't always be softly-softly - sometimes they need a bloody jolt to see that they have crossed a line!

My parents occasionally said no to me. They also occasionally bollocked me for being a lazy cow, and yes, I do feel some shame when I think back to those times. But that's not a bad thing! I'm sick and tired of it being pushed that growing children shouldn't ever be made to feel even slightly put out or uncomfortable because it might upset them.

Oh - and for those of you berating @MumofTeen22 on her 'poor parenting' - I have identical twin boys, one of whom will readily muck in with chores (doesn't volunteer, mind!) and one who will procrastinate and dip and duck to try and get out of doing anything at all. Not sure how my literally identical methods of parenting have resulted in this - it's almost like some people just have more amenable personalities at this age!

To all those saying that the DD is still a child at 15, nearly 16 - at 14 I used to work in a shop for 2 hours after school and 8 hours on a Saturday. I gave Mum some of that money (because we did have much even though both Mum and Dad worked). All my friends did the same it was just what you did then. I agree with a PP who said that some young people today are babyfied.

Delivery was maybe a bit harsh, but I don't think it is harsh at all to expect her to step up a bit when you really need it. Last year I was immobile for a week due to an injury and told my then 14 year old I would need him to help me out more with getting laundry done, meals, etc. He didn't love the idea of course but he didn't complain either, he understood why. At that age they are old enough.