To ask if Co-Ed is better than single sex..

[CHiSOCG]

For girls? My DH is keen on Co-Ed. Most of my friends are looking at local single sex grammar or independent. Of course most will go co-ed comprehensive if they don’t pass the 11+ for the grammar.

No, its an argument for boys' behaviour to be managed and contained.

Covering women up does not change male behaviour which is the actual problem here, not women's bodies.

I’m not accusing any boy-mom’s or their son’t, but don’t all mom’s (parents) think they are the one’s with decent/sweet boys, and that’s part of the problem.

Everyone thinking their son/brother/father/whatever men in their lives are the decent one’s.

Considering how many girls/women are hurt by men, the math isin’t mathing.

NRTFT but I went to a single sex school and when the DDs came along, I vowed and declared I would never put them through that den of bitchiness. Round here, the only girls' school is an Indy and we could never have afforded the fees, so it was immaterial. DH went to a mixed comprehensive so was supportive. Our DDs both went to a mixed state grammar school - I have worked there for 20 years.

Both did/are doing STEM degree courses/PhDs now. Both have a wide circle of friends both lads and girls (and non binary). I'm not saying it was all amazing, but you get idiots everywhere and you need to learn to deal with them. Neither DD ever had a problem with being good at sciences and Maths; it was just expected that if you are good at Chemistry and Maths at GCSE, you'll go on to A level. Both did FM, one did Physics, the other Biology. I am most definitely NOT a science teacher. The only issue both DDs had of sexism came from a member of the SLT who is a misogynistic twat.

I also imagine none of the mums of girls think theirs is the one bullying/being bitchy to the others.

Doesn’t this thread just show that it is the individual school and child that matters rather than the type of school. It’s kinda like - which is better state or Indy? Well - it depends… if it was a school where sex assaults happened and were tolerated, I would prefer single sex. If it were a single sex school with hyper competitiveness and bullying then I would prefer co Ed. If my choices were between 2 bad schools, I would home Ed or move area. If neither had big issues, I would lean more towards co Ed personally (though I did enjoy single sex, so that wouldn’t be a bad choice either).

i think it depends on the child. if a girl only has sisters, or is an only child, and her father is fairly authoritarian, then sending her to an all girls' school could be a problem because she won't have any experience of boys/men other than her father, and then to launch into 'life' aged 18, meeting boys as friends/work colleagues for the first time, its likely she might find herself behaving with them exactly as she behaves with her father, i.e., not speaking up for herself and/or saying yes the whole time. Which is a problem.

I think it's so much better that children go to a co-ed school where they see all the little tentative 'relationships' starting - they 'go out' with each other for about 3 days, then 'split up' but they never actually go on a date or do anything physcal, then in about Year 9 or 10, maybe they 'go out' for a couple of weeks and there's a kiss on the cheek involved and slowly, slowly they learn to get used to world of relationships and are not dropped in at the deep end at 18 with no experience whatsoever, where other people have already learnt to say no, or set boundaries.

Equally, if all your debating classes are girls only, how are you going to cope at university when faced with young men in your class? I'm not convinced that avoiding boys until you're an adult actually makes you more able to compete with them at all.

Co-ed for mine all the way.

Do you really believe that kids in year 9 and 10 only kiss each other on the cheek? If so, you are incredibly naive!

@littlepeas

Maybe some do t but it's a rare child
That goes full on sex at 13/14 years old.

It's a gradual process.

But if a girl has never had a boyfriend until uni or work she may end up in some very uncomfortable positions.

I'm for co Ed as it's not natural to be segregated IMO. It teaches and enforces the idea men and women are different.

We need to begin this from babyhood if we really want change. By the time they get to senior school it's too late anyway and just ingrains the behaviour

I have a girl and a boy and won't tolerate sexist talk in my house.

I went to a single sex school and wouldn't send my child to one.

I went to a single sex grammar and then a mixed sixth form college. I wasn't that happy at the grammar in later years, not necessarily just because it was single sex, though I dont think it is right to expect teens to grow up with limited contact with the opposite sex, as I did - I literally had no contact with boys other than with my younger brother and his friends. Going to sixth form was life changing and I loved it - pre internet days though.

But I wouldn't have sent my girls to a single sex school - both went to comprehensives. And the mixed aspect was not problematic for either.

Girl's schools often have worse bullying than co-eds! My daughter has been in private co-ed schools since reception (she's now in secondary) and I was actively looking for co-ed schools. I find it unnatural to separate boys and girls and my colleague who had his daughters in single sex schools just switched them to co-ed because of the awful toxic environment.

Reality is that this girl will most likely experience boys rubbing themselves up against her and talking about erections and anal whilst showing one another pornography on their phones by the end of the first term.

Evading the forceful groping of older boys during lesson changeovers where it's not possible to see in the mass of students.

Boys trying to get into the girls' changing rooms for PE and commenting upon her breasts as they go past for a PE lesson.

Asking why she wears a bra if she hasn't got large breasts during English lessons.

Drawing cartoons of her.

Sending messages asking for nudes. Saying they'll tell everybody she sent them if she refuses.

Having to make sure she's never alone in a part of the site where there aren't any security cameras.

Not being able to leave school on her own because the groups of boys target girls on their own.

Then there are the 'little relationships' where there's pressure to give the boy proof she likes him. Maybe some images of the boy that are illegal for her to have.

And if she is seriously assaulted, there's the knowledge that there will be snapchats of the attack being shared.

Maybe it is a bit unnatural for girls to be free of the constant sexual harrassment and threat of assault in an education environment when it's perfectly normal for it to go on all the time from 11 years old everywhere else. But having seen both versions (and experienced it myself - it's nothing new - boys will be boys, after all), I now think there's something to be said for unnatural.

I went to a single sex girls school and wouldn't turn back if I had the choice. My closest circle of friends now are still ones I made at school (we left 10+ years ago) and I did extremely well in my GCSEs.

They really cracked down on uniform, make up, nails etc across the school in my 2nd year and dished out a lot of detentions. It caused a bit of uproar from the students to start with but it was the best thing they could have done for us all.. I personally became very comfortable in my own skin, we all knew and loved each other for who we were, and without boys around and these tighter rules it just stopped the girls all competing against one another over silly things.

Our sixth form was then mixed with mostly boys that had attended the local all boys school. They were probably excited to finally be around girls after 5 years without... unfortunately for them they were greeted with a pack of girls that hadn't worn make-up and been bothered by our appearance for years and still appreciated the extra 10 minutes in bed in the morning, we would openly talk about periods, cramps, thrush etc very animatedly in the common room and had zero time for any of the lads that thought they'd try playing us against one another because of our pack-like solidarity. I still did extremely well in my A-levels in a mixed sixth form, but put a lot of it down to the values my single sex high school had taught me.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

Well said.

You’ve missed out quite a lot of stuff that could happen between ‘peck on the cheek’ and ‘full on sex’. I also don’t think it’s that rare to have sex at 14/15. I was nearly 16 towards the end of year 10 (upper end of the range you gave) so almost at the legal age of consent.

I’m not for one second saying that this is right, but pretending that it doesn’t happen is doing girls a disservice. If you think they are only pecking a boyfriend on the cheek at that age then you are turning a blind eye to the many other things they may be experiencing from/with boys both with and without consent.

I've attended both. It's difficult for me to say as I loved the single sex school, and the camaraderie, but I made some excellent
male friends, I'm still in touch with, from my co-Ed school.

I think possibly single sex just edges it from the education point of view. There was a stronger element of competitiveness, as has been mentioned, and it's easy to get caught up in that, I found.

And.....?

I don't wear uniform to work. I choose my job based on things I'm interested in and good at and don't spend most days learning things that are completely irrelevant to my job. I choose my own hours rather than working 8.50 to 3.25. I work alone and not with 30 other people crammed in a tiny room. I don't have to address my manager as sir. I don't have 13 weeks holiday a year. I dont study for exams. I don't have to do compulsory sport several times with my colleagues within my working week and then share a shower with them. I can go on!

The role of schools are to educate not to provide a microcosm of working life!

@NeverDropYourMooncup true, plenty to time to get to grips with nature later!

I went to a girls RC school. (Comprehensive) At 11, I hated boys and was happy to go to a girls school.

I don't have kids, but if I did I definitely wouldn't send them to a faith school. Girls v coed I'm in 2 minds about.

Girls do better in maths and sciences in single sex schools. But school is not about academic achievement. I was so shy around boys, they were like aliens to me. It took a long time to treat them normally.

I was in secondary school in the 70s/80s and we weren't offered stuff like metalwork or woodwork, just cookery and needlework! Obviously that is rightly illegal now.

I have heard of some schools that are coed but boys and girls are taught separately at least in sciences/maths which I think is a good compromise.

If she does go to agirls school, I would suggest extra curricular activities like scouts, drama etc to get her to mingle with boys.

A couple of posters have mentioned separating the sexes for maths and science and I’d quite like to know the rationale for that.

But are people saying that girls should only peck on the cheek at that age? Really?? Is it a case of hope to god that they're not doing anything sexual at all until the age of consent, and then all bets are off?? Girls of 14/15 are developing sexually, just as boys are. Trying to prevent them from having any sexual experiences at all until they're 16 or 18 is repressive. Of course, some girls won't want to do anything at all yet, which is obviously fine. But some girls will, and that's fine too. They needed to be taught and empowered to control their sexual experiences and to enjoy positive sexual relationships as appropriate, and I don't think that only encountering boys in a social context is the best way of doing that. Nor is it going to stop them. FWIW I'd done a fair bit more than a peck on the cheek by age 16, and I was at a SS school.

I've met quite a few people from single sex schools who can't relate properly to the opposite sex. Not healthy at all.

"The role of schools are to educate not to provide a microcosm of working life!"

The role of school is to prepare you for adult life. If it were just about the education you could be home educated, but school is much more than that.

Depends on the school. Depends on the kid. In my experience as a teacher there's a lot less bullying in single sex girls schools, girls do hold grudges for longer than boys though, so fall outs tend to last a lot longer!

Agreed, DDs who go to single sex schools seem way more obsessed with boys and put them on a pedestal. All they do is talk about where to meet boys, how to talk to them and struggle with the concept of just being friends with the opposite sex.