To ask if Co-Ed is better than single sex..

[CHiSOCG]

For girls? My DH is keen on Co-Ed. Most of my friends are looking at local single sex grammar or independent. Of course most will go co-ed comprehensive if they don’t pass the 11+ for the grammar.

No one is saying all boys are bad 🙄. Sadly there is a strain of misogyny in our society and you can get a core of dominant boys who behave like that towards the girls there’s not much the nice boys can do about it. See the “Everyone’s Invited” evidence.

There’s no right or wrong mine are thriving at an all girls educationally as my older one is quite quiet and I know she would have retreated in class with boys around. That said some friends girls would have been happier in a mixed school.

Also, I actually find the discourse around sexuality pretty old fashioned. There seems to be an idea that boys are all potential rapists with one thing on their minds, while girls are all potential victims who need to be tucked away chastely to preserve their innocence. I don't know about you, but I seem to rember having one thing on my mind too when I was 15! Girls need to learn to be powerful agents who control their own sex lives, choosing how much sex they want to have when and with whom, rather than pretending that it's boys who are interested in sex not girls, and that girls need to be removed to shield them in a sexless environment. That surely just perpetuates the idea that men are the desirers of sex and women are the gatekeepers - it's almost a throwback to the idea that boys who have a few sexual partners are studs while girls who do the same are sluts.

What proportion of the sexual assaults and sexual harrassment which occur in schools (and indeed in general) do you think are perpetrated by girls and women? The 'It's old-fashioned' line doesn't stand up very well to the evidence. Yes of course teenage girls have sex on their minds, but tbh I think it would be naïve to suggest that they seek to pursue it as relentlessly as many boys or that it is as present in their language, attitude and treatment of the opposite sex as it often is with boys.

Suggesting that it's actively a good thing to put girls as young as 11 in a position to have to navigate this to 'train' them is worrying. It's boys who need training - not to behave this way. I say that as a te a teacher of over 25 years' standing (in mixed and single sex schools of both sexes) and mother of a teenage boy and a teenage girl. It's no wonder we see so many teenage girls trying to identify out of being girls. I wonder how the figures for that compare in single sex vs co-ed.

I think it depends on the child. Myself my older Dsis, my 2 DD and my DS all went to the local single sex comp schools.
I was fine, my Dsis hated it, we are totally different personalities.
My older DD was fine, 2nd DD hated it and really struggled with the dynamics. My DS was definitely best choice and was fine.

I come from Germany where single-sex schools are utterly unknown in the state sector so the idea was bewildering for me.

DD is 15 and now goes to a all-girls school. We didn't really have a choice here and after nearly 5 years I think she absolutely thrives.

Hardly any bullying or bitchiness. In my opinion it has a lot to do with the school's leadership, it is absolutely not tolerated and stamped out as soon as possible. Jewellery and make-up are no-gos and will cause detention.

They do the same subjects as the boys next door, it's not a girly envrionment. They are actively encouraged to think beyond gender stereotypes and only take the sky as the limit. I like the fact that there isn't really any competition to impress the boys or dump themselves down to attract a boy (seen at friend's co-ed schools unfortunately).

Saying that, social interaction and learning to deal with boys is necessary. So we purposely sent her to Scouts and now she is an Explorer Scout and according to the leader she can tell whose in an all-girls school as most of them don't take any rubbish from the boys.

I went to a co Ed. I hated it. It got so old and boring being called fridgid/gay/stag all the time just because you turned a boy down.

I was supposed to be at school to learn not be asked for blow jobs in art class.

The disruptive kids in my classes happened to be boys. They dominated and disrupted in any class the teacher was soft or inexperienced or ineffective.

I have no idea if I would have fitted in at a single sex either, but all I feel co Ed prepared me for Really was a.lifetime of being harassed, groped, treated like public property.

Try serving all your " nice boys " in a.pub. then see if you think they are so nice as they comnent on your underwear, pink your trousers/underwear. Comment on your arse etc

Its disturbing how easy it is to get tips out of them with nothing but a slightly low cut top...

No the world isn't single sex but sometimes the break is just nice. Otherwise u just have t wait til.your forty and finally invisible

Also I don't think things are gonna change until people/parents stop getting defensive over their sons husbands and brothers and start realising there is actually a problem.

When you serve stag dos that have ordered a stripper to the pub, when even the police are getting hammered and have a bucket beside them incase their shot game makes them sick, when bar staff are called a fucking fat slag because you politely ask someone to drink up and leave because the 20 mins " drink up and fuck off" time is over...then you might realise what they get up to when you aren't around.

It starts in school. As much as no one wants to admit it..it starts in school.

Whatwouldscullydo I grew up in the Netherlands and there was none of that. I do think British lad culture as a whole has an awful lot to answer for, and having single sex schools as a break doesn't resolve that issue.

No but maybe without the girls to use to baby sit the boys at school the teachers might actually have to start dealing with the behaviour. It doesn't do the boys any favours does it. They aren't born this way. This behaviour is something the adults around them lead them into. The parents rely on the schools to guide them in their time there as they can only do what they can when they are at home and the schools outsource it to the girls.

What hope do they have.

A local independent school uses a Diamond approach so co ed but English, Maths, PE and science are done separately. I think it's a great idea!

@CHiSOCG I suggest you listen to this teacher

It obviously depends on the individual child and the school. I have access to a great non selective girls school who are top 5 for results in the county ( similar boys school who are top 10). The best co-Ed school is 30 something in the league table ( not that league tables are everything). I also worked for quite a while in Child protection with responsibility for training around child sexual exploitation. I can only say that the cases coming out of schools are wide spread and troubling. Cases include rapes on school premises and one where other pupils have held a girl down to be raped. And I appreciate not all boys are like that but given this knowledge and the disparity between the academic performance between my two options it’s not much of a choice.

Watch the Panorama episode on sex assaults in mixed secondary schools.

Consider the social media situation

Look at how girls are impacted by the mixed sex or "gender neutral" toilets etc at a lot of schools

Statistics show girls perform academically better in single sex schools.

Then look at your DD and decide what school is best for her.

I went to a single sex school and I have sent my DD to one. She is thriving but is also ND so picking the right school was super important. She needed small class sizes, small campus etc

I do not understand this mind set at all.

The jump-to-the-defensive, ‘but what about the boys??’ mindset.

I have a son. A lovely, kind, empathetic 13YO boy.

I don’t jump on the defensive when I read these threads, because I know it’s not my boy iand his ilk who are being discussed. If all men in the world were like my boy, it would be idyllic and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

But the world isn’t like that. And my DD has to navigate the many boys and men who aren’t like my son, my DH, my DF, FIL, BILs.

Mothers of boys need to recognise the issue, and not jump on the defensive.

But this is a society issue, not a school issue. Some of the most interesting posts on this thread are from the PPs from other countries, where SS schools are unheard of. Why can they achieve this and we can't? As a PP said, separating boys and girls from age 11-16 for a 'break' is just not an answer to this problem - it's a sticking plaster that's only available to a small number of girls, and it's kicking the can down the road. I know lots of you disagree with me, but I think we need to say, as women, that enough is enough - that we demand equal treatment in mixed sex spaces, at all ages and stages of our lives.

I think I would have hated single sex school. The worst thing about my high school days were a few very bitchy girls, I wouldn't have wanted even more of them! Made some good male friends.

@kairouan SS schools in Europe are usually private so not unheard of just not in the state system.

I agree that the issue should be tackled but the panorama episode on sexual violence in our secondary schools in the UK made me shudder.

I would not be prepared to send my daughter to a mixed state school in the uk under any circumstances. Maybe for 6th form, but probably not.

Some of the most interesting posts on this thread are from the PPs from other countries, where SS schools are unheard of.

I’m posting from NZ - in favour of single-sex schools (for girls).

I went to a coed secondary in the 80s in the uk in the North East and honestly don't remember any sexual harassment from the boys. Yes they were annoying idiots but then so were the girls 😆 is it so much different now? According to my son it isn't. Although my daughter is starting secondary this year so I guess I'll find out.

I think a lot of posters are just assuming girls don't have the ability to stand up for themselves but I assure you they do. Of course it would be great if sexual harassment didn't exist and girls didn't have to be resilient but that's not the real world unfortunately. I also.find all girls schools a bit jolly hockey sticks but that's my own prejudice showing I'm sure they're a bit more.modern now.

You are right, but there is no sense in martyring girls to in an effort to spark change. The Uk is currently being led by a man accused of sexual harassment, possible domestic abuse, and continuously cheating on his female partners. These facts are among the least remarkable of his failings. MPs are watching porn in the House of Commons! Violent porn degrading women is accessible to young children in a way it has never been before, hard to see how sending girls to a co-Ed school and putting a bit of collective pressure on the leadership of that school can really turn the tide on this quick enough for sending a 13 year old into that mess to be justifyable. I appreciate there are probably very fine co-Ed schools but it’s worth remembering what we are potentially dealing with here.

@MistyFuckingQuigley

I suggest you watch this. Panorama episode on the rates of sexual assaults in secondary schools.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000zgwk

It read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been said. There is some research somewhere that suggests girls fair better in single sex environments but boys are better co-Ed. Much will depend, of course, on individual personality but for girls it comes down to not having to confirm to stereotypes and/or be subjected to stereotyping (conscious or unconscious) by teaching staff when it comes to stem subjects. I guess it takes a particularly strong and empathetic leadership to develop a working environment that avoids that kind of toxic masculinity you find in some all-male environments.

I'd say there are pros and cons to both, in my opinion girls and boys should mix together before they are legal adults! From friends that had girls in single sex schools bullying was usually quite bad.

I have two incredible sons and am still able to acknowledge that misogyny and sexism is rife within co-ed schools. I think it may be even worse for girls now than it was when I was young, because of social media and the availability of porn (and the expectations that arise from that). My dd goes to a girls school.

I went to a girls only grammar. Absolutely hated it. I had no idea how to talk to boys, as I had never had any as friends. I was painfully shy around them until my early 20s.( same experience for my sister too)I vowed I would never send my child to a single sex school. My DD grew up feeling very comfortable around boys, aside from that the educational experience for her in co-Ed was much the same as mine.

I just asked DD (yr 11) about this. She is aware that some of the boys do discuss porn and that some boys (and girls) do talk about sex, but that is amongst themselves and doesn't impact on her at all. No harassment at all.

DD is at a mixed school. This has presented no problems whatsoever. There is no bias to the boys in maths/science - the top mathematician is a girl, and there are plenty of girls at the top end in both maths and science. Her friendship group is mixed (very - not just male/female), and they are all very comfortable about that. The girls are not averse to discussing periods in front of their closer male friends!

In the long run, it's a mixed-sex world. I think we've got a lot better chance of educating boys to treat girls with respect if they are together in school. The real long-term way to improve society is not "protecting girls from boys"; it's "educating the boys so protection isn't needed".