To hate it when people say “my husband/partner/boyfriend doesn’t do the night feeds because he works”

[ForestFae]

Every time I see or hear this phrase, I rage. Usually said by some poor sleep deprived new mum who’s looking after the baby/ies all day long. Why is looking after a baby not considered valuable work? Why are men getting away with using this rubbish excuse?

Lol. If it helps you sleep at night () to believe I’m unhappy, go ahead. I actually couldn’t be happier with my life, wouldn’t change a thing and I thank the universe every day that I’ve been lucky enough to live the life I wish. But tell yourself whatever you need.

This is short sighted, capitalistic and wrong. There’s value to having SAHP - and many jobs don’t have a societal value either, especially stuff like middle management. A lot of jobs are made up for the sake of jobs. This is getting off topic, but modern society is just a neoliberal hellhole designed to exploit labour out of people - we should instead be living in small communities focused in craftsmanship, harmony with nature, permaculture and family and community relations. Instead everyone is divorced from nature, chasing materialism and the family and community support is gone (for most people). It’s a terrible societal structure.

I think the OP has a point. A balance should be found.

I switch off a bit from the whole 'being a SAHP is so much harder' line. I certainly didn't find that myself. However that doesn't mean it's ok to be on your knees with tiredness doing it, because the other parent goes to work. Sleeping while the children sleep is obviously horseshit, very few are able to.

I know someone who crashed the car with two small children in it as a result of sleep deprivation. Thankfully they were ok, but it shows you what can happen.

I think it’s reasonable to share the load but unreasonable for the parent who isn’t working to expect the parent who is working to share all the night wakings. When I was on mat leave I’d go to bed around 9, DH would stay up and do a late feed around 11pm, then he’d go to bed and I’d handle any wakings between 12-6. He’d look after the baby between around 6-8 and then go to work. So he’d get a solid block of sleep and I would have had a decent amount just more broken. But I was able to sloth around in my pjs all day and focus only on the baby if it was a difficult day whereas DH had to be looking presentable and able to string a sentence together.

Just let people make their own decisions- there’s not always a right and wrong way when raising kids.

Personally I'm not convinced of the especial benefit to society of that model of child rearing, no. What is the evidence to support that belief?
As a member of society, a SAHP raising their child has no positive impact on my life. A working parent driving my bus, treating my medical condition or advising me on my pension does.
If I were the OPs husband, I would value her work, as I did my own partners SAH work, but I'm genuinely not sure why wider society should be expected to.

What's the value of a SAHP to wider society?

I’ve worked in several jobs, many of which were professional and certainly challenging. I found that type of work relatively easy - not saying everyone does, but for me personally, it wasn’t difficult. Challenging in some respects but it wasn’t exactly difficult - there were processes to follow and I was trained in the processes, it was just a case of finding the appropriate process for the particular task in front of me. There are only so many options.
Jobs with specific process training are not the type of roles suggested by "challenging", they are junior roles. Great if they suit you, but you should be aware that some people have roles that require them to think in-depth and respond quickly.

So enlighten me, how is society benefitting from your choice to be a SAHP? Don't get me wrong, I respect your right to do it for the benefit of your family, and if i were your partner, i would value it a great deal. But you call me shortsighted for not recognising the wider societal benefit. So, explain to me, what is it?

we should instead be living in small communities focused in craftsmanship, harmony with nature, permaculture and family and community relations
If that's what you want then you do that, rather than commenting on how others live. Communes like you describe exist, so off you pop: diggersanddreamers.org.uk/noticeboards/places-needing-members/

Lol. You have no idea what job I did or didn’t do, but keep telling yourselves “oh well she had an easy job, thats why she found it easier! Not like my complicated one!”

I'm not arguing that children of working mums do not grow up as adjusted. Of course I'm not saying that. I was responding to the pp who specifically said -

"There is no benefit to wider society if a person decides to devote themselves solely to the care of their children."

Well, I am a member of this "wider society." I know that my children are better off with me than anyone I could pay to do the same. My children are also a part of 'wider society'. What did they want? It not all about turning out 'adjusted adults'. A pre-schooler has no concept of this. They are also 'wider society'. Do they care about the wider economy, or do they care about being with their mum?

Again, I am not arguing that nurseries etc are harmful to development. Nor am I saying that all women should want to SAH. Many are not cut out for it anyway. What I am saying is - the fact that most families today have to have two incomes just to have a reasonable standard of living should not be used as an argument to devalue the role of a SAHP. There is 'societal value' and then there is 'economic value.' Societal values encompasses a lot more than economics.

Healthy children raised to be kind and polite members of society. My children get fresh home cooked meals almost daily, they’re raised to respect animals and nature, they’re polite to others. Kids in schools and nurseries can end up learning to be absolute little terrors to each other (look how many kids get bullied and how many partake and/or stand by silently and watch, for example), they learn to just be cogs in the machine of the system. By having a SAHP, especially if attach,emf parenting is practised, kids are likely to grow up confident and well adjusted.

But this is how it was...l didn't have an alarm clock telling me to go to work like he did so it seemed right that l did the night feeds?

And no, I’m not saying everyone else grows up horribly, I’m simply saying having a stable home with a SAHP can be a protective factor.

You said this better than I did.

Thanks for confirming my point @ForestFae, that it's about how children are raised - whether they are loved, stimulated, given healthy meals, taught good manners etc- which matters.

And the fact is, that can be done (or not) with one or both parents working. If in your own particular circumstances you felt that could only happen with you being home then that's fine. The rest of us aren't you.

I’m not a SAHP but I know a handful and the main way they benefit can wider society is through volunteering on a major scale, because they have the time and flexibility.

The ones I know do a huge amount of fundraising for local schools and neighbourhoods. They use their professional backgrounds and flexibility to meet with people who can make a difference, e.g., local politicians and private individuals who could make substantial donations , to ask for their support for projects such as creating new sports facilities, restoring neglected buildings, etc. They write grant applications that take hours ( grant writing is part of my job so I know how long they can take😂). They’re also the people who volunteer at school and organize the fetes as they’ve got the time. They coach sports teams, they do meals on wheels deliveries, they volunteer at animal charities and work at charity shops. And the list goes on.

Tbh, I don’t know any SAHP who “only” look after their children. Perhaps it’s just the people I happen to know as I’m keen on community involvement so I meet likeminded people? Anyway, volunteering is the area where I personally believe SAHP’s really contribute to wider society. I’m sure there are others.

My DH never did any night feeds because his job involved overnight overtime (on call) and I breastfed so he couldn't anyway m. But he is very helpful in other ways. More helpful than I often am actually

Of course. People are free to make their own choices. That doesn’t mean the role of a SAHP isn’t valuable just because it can be outsourced. Many things can be outsourced, they’re still valuable.

That depends on the "office job"

You don't want a sleep deprived designer drawing the electrical schematics of a hospital.

Cause that's an office job FFS.

Not all office jobs are just sitting at a computer pressing a button with no outcome.

I did all the night feeds because I was bf and there was literally nothing my DH could do. Plus he’d just started a business. I take the view there’s no point both of us being knackered. I was on Mat leave. There are many, many things I resent my DH for in terms of not pulling his weight, but that isn’t one of them.

@Cameleongirl tbh It sits uncomfortably with me that so many organisations rely on volunteers... but that's a whole other thread! But you certainly don't need to be a SAHP to do all those things you mention- in fact I and many of my working mum friends were stalwarts of the PTA! And of course many older retired or semi retired people do a lot of volunteering too

You don’t need to be, but being a SAHP usually gives you more flexibility with when you can do those roles.

Yes, a SAHP is valuable to the family unit (if both parents agree!) I've agreed that point all along. It's being a GOOD a parent which has the wider societal value... thankfully that's not a one size fits all

@missdemeanors i know that working and retired people can also volunteer, I do some myself! But, SAHPs can ( and in my area, do) massively contribute to wider society this way too. A new park is being created near us, 18 acres of facilities for the general public. The land was was purchased by an environmental organization for several million and I know the people involved- hours and hours of meetings with the sellers, garnering support from politician, local organisations, and private donors, multiple grant applications, etc. The main instigator is a SAHM with a business background!