To hate it when people say “my husband/partner/boyfriend doesn’t do the night feeds because he works”

[ForestFae]

Every time I see or hear this phrase, I rage. Usually said by some poor sleep deprived new mum who’s looking after the baby/ies all day long. Why is looking after a baby not considered valuable work? Why are men getting away with using this rubbish excuse?

@anxiousmumagain

I just dont think those hours of not being 'hands on' make that much difference.

Or why the op is in such denial that wp do both jobs.

I've not said I do more parenting. I dont.

But I do work harder.

My job is incredibly hard. And I parent to. Minus the 37.5 hours a week I work

Take away the hours the kids are in school anyway.

Mine did it at weekends but I wouldn’t expect him to be able to work after being up all night. His wage is important to us as a family. There’s a big difference between being home with a baby ( which is draining but doesn’t require much sharpness of thought and decision making) and going out and doing a responsible job.

Having done both, I disagree. As a working parent I did all the things I did as a SAHM. The only difference was that as a SAHM I could do them at a more leisurely pace and faff about with them a bit more, where as when combining them with paid work I had to get a move on, cut some non essential corners and sacrifice leisure time.
Imo there would be nothing harder than getting in from a day at work, followed by a long commute, only to be handed a baby and told its your turn until you get to go back to work the next day; because the person at home all day has done their day's work and needs a break. If my DP expected this of me when he was a SAHP I would not have been impressed.

@ForestFae

I totally agree.

I was just relating to the point about "office jobs" being less demanding. It really depends what one is doing in the office and the implications of fucking up. So that's an essentially meaningless way to group jobs, imo.

But I agree wholeheartedly with you that the parent looking after the baby also needs to be well rested and it can be unsafe if not. Both in terms of immediate risk to baby if mum fell asleep for example whilst driving, but also because longer term the child needs a mentally well mum. I said earlier that I had a horrible mental breakdown postnatally which was at least partly due to lack of sleep. It was horrific, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

@ForestFae

Could you point out where I've said I did the same as you?

What do you think will happen if parents don't spend every day with their kids?

Do you never take a day to yourself? Go out with your mates?

I'm not sure, my partner earns 20x what I could ever earn and heads up a large company - he needs to be 100% to keep things running there and essentially keep our lifestyle going. I wouldn't expect him to do night feeds regularly if I'm at home during the day, but I would expect him do his share of bath/bedtime, nappies etc. once he's home and probably would expect him to do weekends and any nights I'm struggling. We're a team and without him working at a high level our family's life would be very different - I really couldn't and wouldn't want to do his job either.

@5128gap

Which part of my post did you disagree with? Surely we agree that there are a fixed number of hours in the day, whether you are a working parent or a SAHP?

It sounds like you're saying (tell me if I'm wrong) that if you're a SAHP you have more leisure time built into the hours you spend "working"? Therefore when you also have a paid job, you have to be more efficient with the lesser hours you get at home? Hence, SAHP don't work as hard because they get leisure time and time to "faff" etc built into their day?

Not in the slightest being goady, just trying to make sure I've understood.

Obviously I take the odd day to myself - I went out for a picnic with DH without the kids for my birthday for example - but generally, I spend every day with my kids. DH and I spend our time together as couple at night, weekend days are for family days. S for “going out with my mates”, DH and I are both quite solitary, me more so. We’d rather read books or play a board game together. I don’t think anything horrific will happen if a parent leaves their kids for a few hours, it’s just not the way I choose to raise my kids because I believe our time together is important for both us as individuals and as a family, and I believe the kind of upbringing and education i provide has value.

@ForestFae

So do you think wp don't value upbringing?

What will you do when your kids are of the age they want to go out with their mates?

Imo there would be nothing harder than getting in from a day at work, followed by a long commute, only to be handed a baby and told its your turn until you get to go back to work the next day; because the person at home all day has done their day's work and needs a break.

For me, when I was on maternity leave, this break when DP got home from work was absolutely essential. It meant I could breathe and psychologically have some of "me" back, even for an hour or two. I found it really intense looking after a baby alone for 12 hours at a time while DP worked shifts. I find my paid work challenging, but it's not intense in the same way. I have colleagues at work to bounce ideas off, I can take a 10/15 minute coffee break and zone out etc. I didn't feel able to do these things at home with the baby and there was no one to bounce ideas off when I felt like I was going slowly insane. Fortunately my DP realised that I needed those hours to be mentally well enough to function as our DD's mother. He also realised that I needed sleep to do this, so we split the night wakings but he did most of them.

My point is that sometimes these things are necessary depending on the family's needs. It's not always a case of being petty and saying "I've done my day's work, here, take the baby". It's often more nuanced than that.

You’re twisting what I’m saying. I’m sure you value the way you bring up your kids. I value the way I bring up mine. We have the freedom to do so.

They’re allowed to go out with their mates lol, just because I home ed them doesn’t mean they’re not. They’re not out with their mates for 40 hours per week.

I disagree that I did less at home as a working parent than a SAHM. In both circumstances I did the same, but as a SAHM I was able to take longer to do it. So while tidying up after work would involve shoving things in a drawer for example, when at home I had organised cupboard and ironed the pillowcases.
And yes, I am saying I had more leisure built into my day, and didn't work anywhere near as hard. Sitting on my sofa for several hours feeding my baby while listening to music or watching TV, pushing the pram to the park and back, bathing and changing, even hours of walking up and down trying to settle them (and they sleep eventually, and often at length) didn't come close to the demands of my paid job, mentally or physically.
I realise everyone is different but that was my experience.

If you're a SAHM then , yes, do the night feeds.
If you both work then share.

@ForestFae

What gives it value? Your way? What do you think you're achieving that wp aren't?

They might not be out 40 hours a week now but they soon will be.

Can't keep them at home for ever

I agree with you OP. Yes if you are breastfeeding obviously it has to be the woman , and I did EBF my second. Occassionally I couldn't get her back to sleep though and then if I had been struggling for a while I would wake DH and ask him to help and he would. And you can't always sleep in the day, only if you've got one baby, if there's an older toddler and you don't manage to coordinate nàptimes you won't get the chance. My youngest would only sleep for 30 minutes so by the time I had got the toddler off the baby would be awake again 15 minutes later. I appreciate you can't get sacked for being tired at home but they do still need your attention anď input, and to go out and do activities ( if you have a toddler definitely) and if you're too knackered to do anything other than sit on the sofa with the TV on they won't get the best from you. Looking aftèr the children well is just as important as working, it's not one versus the other.
When I went back to work both times they were still waking at night and lo and behold I managed, it can be done! My job needs high levels of concentration, it's quite technical. And I expect being a SAHM is hard, I know I couldn't do it.

@5128gap

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying. I suppose I meant there are fewer hours left of the day if you're a working parent, so how do you achieve the same as a parent who is at home FT? But I see what you're saying - the way you achieve that is you have to be more efficient in the little time you have left, and leisure time gets dropped etc.

I haven't done both so can't compare - I've only ever been a FT working parent (apart from 1 year on maternity leave).

I suppose I was just relating to the OP's point about there being the same number of hours across the day regardless, for both SAHP and working parents. But I guess from what you're saying, it's not just the number of hours that matter necessarily, it's about the intensity of the work - ie. if you're having to cram a load of tasks into a shorter amount of time after work, it feels like harder work because you're trying to achieve the same output you would if you were at home FT, but you're doing that across fewer hours?? Which makes sense. I think. ? 🤣

Absolutely. You've summarised exactly what I was trying to say.

It's not inferior. But it is far more flexible than most paid work. You're your own boss. If you're not able to do what you planned to do because your knackered after a bad night, you just don't do it. It can wait. You won't have a boss breathing down your neck, you won't lose a contract or miss a sale, you'll not risk a deadline and piss off a colleague or a customer, you won't lose control of your class, you don't risk losing your job.

I've done both. Being a sahm was hard, but I was accountable to no-one and that makes a HUGE difference.

We then night weaned (breastfed) and took night wakings in turn.

This is getting ridiculous. You want me to write a whole manifesto justifying why I personally believe the way I raise my children is the best way for them, because you clearly feel upset by people choosing a different system to you.

when will they be out for 40 hours? When they’re at university maybe? Sure. Prior to that I highly doubt it.

Exactly this. DH on a blue light run after no sleep whilst I'm on maternity leave. It's a no brainer 🙄. There are other ways to help!

It's a reason why I'll probably bottle feed from the get go. I want it to be as equal as possible from the start and refuse to do all of the night feeds as well as the fact I'll have a short maternity leave and don't fancy expressing but we'll see.

Sadly dh remained unable to breastfeed the whole time we had babies so night wakings were all mine. They didn't need settling (the boob did that) and I didn't do nappies at night (unless dirty, once in a blue moon) so he had little to offer. He did get to get up with them at 5.30am though because that's when the started the day.

Having been both a SAHM and a full time working mum with babies I found it about 1,000x easier to be knackered and looking after kids, than knackered and at work. At work I had to think and concentrate, sticking pepper pig on or going to the park didn't cut it.

YABU for assuming there is even someone else around to share any 'baby duties' - lots and lots of people do it all on their own, although the majority have some help, from their DP or someone else.

Rage on about nothing my dear, it's not men that get away with this crap - it's more about women who're gaining ground atop the scrapheap not assisting those below them, possibly because their own 'footing' is on thin ground.

It's not by braying about your own 'wonderfulness' that assists the lot of Women.

Erm no, it’s about men assuming they don’t have to do an equal share of the unsavoury side of parenting, like night wakings.