to think my nephew’s bad behaviour isn’t acceptable?

[KarenOLantern]

I have a DD (2) who was born in lockdown so I didn’t make any mum friends, none of my friends have kids, so I am clueless as to what to expect/how to react to other children’s behaviour and would really appreciate other perspectives here, plus ideas on how to respond.

We have two nephews on my DH’s side (both 4, not brothers) who live very far away, so we see them about 2-3 times a year. One of them (let’s call him George) is fine. The other (Alex) was a really kind and sweet toddler, but I am struggling to see anything positive about his behaviour over the last year, and I don’t know if I am being unreasonable by expecting too much from such a young kid, or if I’m right to think his behaviour isn’t great.

We are currently 5 days into a 10-day stay with Alex and his parents, and I am not exaggerating when I say I don’t think he has been pleasant to my DD for more than 5 minutes at a time. We were told he was really excited to see her and he talks about her all the time, which I am sure is true, but his idea of playing with her involves:

• roughly picking her up and carrying her around, no matter how much she cries, tells him to stop, or the adults tell him not to because he’s hurting her and it’s dangerous;

• pushing her down and sitting on top of her (again, ignoring her crying, and repeating it after adults have told him not to);

• whatever she’s doing, he has to annoy her somehow. If she’s playing with a toy, he'll snatch it off her/push her off it. If she’s drinking water he’ll snatch her cup and try to force-feed it to her (pressing the cup really hard into her face and hurting her). If she’s on a chair he’ll pull her off roughly, while shouting at her; if she climbs off the chair he shouts “No! You’ve got to sit on the chair!” and lifts her back onto it.

• He shouts and screams at her if she isn’t doing what he thinks she should be doing (which always seems to be the opposite of whatever she is currently doing).

• Several times I have had to physically stop him from putting a cushion/duvet on her face and sitting on it.

• Twice he has put a scarf/belt around her neck and tried to pull it very hard. Both times I was right there so grabbed it and shouted at him to stop, but he was very insistent and holding on very tightly/pulling with his whole body weight and I had to really prise it out of his hands.

-Whenever he is physically prevented from any of this behaviour he screams very loudly, swings his limbs around and throws things.

When my DD is obviously distressed/in danger I step in physically, although I have also been trying to encourage her to shout "stop" , but she hasn't yet. While all this is going on, Alex's parents are usually there telling him to stop, but he pays them very little mind. They often threaten punishments, but I have yet to see one actually happen.

My MIL seems to think this is just “normal boy behaviour”… except that the other cousin George never behaves like this at all. He can be noisy and chaotic of course, but I’ve never seen him be aggressive or purposefully hurt or annoy another child like Alex seems to almost constantly. (It’s also worth noting, Alex behaves in a similar manner with George too, but as they are the same age/size George can stand up for himself much better.)

Alex’s parents seem to think most of this behaviour comes from a desire to help people, and they are always going on about how caring he is, (eg. when he picks my DD up it’s because he wants to help her walk, when he snatches her water cup and presses it to her face he’s trying to help her drink, etc., and it’s just that he’s too young to know when to stop.) But I am inclined to suspect they’re a bit misty-eyed and just trying to put a positive spin on everything he does. For a start, he’s so aggressive and shouty when trying to “help” my DD that I struggle to see it as “caring”. When there’s no way to put a positive spin on something he’s done, his parents blame it on being hungry or tired or a tummy ache, (but if that’s the case then he’s been hungry and tired almost constantly for the last 5 days, despite eating and sleeping at normal times…).

I just feel like I’m in a bit of an alternate universe, as I keep seeing these patterns of unpleasant behaviour where Alex seems to be constantly, and purposefully, trying to hurt or annoy the other two children, but the other adults in the family seem completely blind to it.

So yeah, any perspectives welcome please. Is this really within the bounds of normal 4-year-old boy behaviour? Am I being too precious with my DD? Will he just naturally grow out of behaving like this? How would you respond if you were Alex’s parents? How would you respond if you were me? TIA

Several times I have had to physically stop him from putting a cushion/duvet on her face and sitting on it.

Twice he has put a scarf/belt around her neck and tried to pull it very hard.

If the 4 year old has somehow learned that putting a pillow over someone's head will kill them, and putting something round their neck and pulling could also kill/harm them, where has he learned this?

I don't think most 4 year olds would know this, especially the strangling one.

Has he been exposed to some media/violent films?

By media I just mean films etc, or maybe youtube has some content presenting that IDK. (Most of my Youtubes I follow aren't like that.)

This.

Op take your child home and keep her safe from this cousin.

I tried to 'help' by starting to put my younger sister in a scalding hot bath (mum stopped me) but I was genuinely trying to help as I didn't know there was a proper temperature for baths really.

And I wasn't using methods (somehow known by a child) which have no other interpretation but that they're trying to kill/injure

I'd be telling his parents to keep him away from her, and also after that didn't work, tell him him to leave her alone, and punishing him if he went near her again. Protect your daughter from this bile entitled nightmare of a child.

If he does actually want to help or take care of her then his parents need to be actively helping him do that. Their hands should also be on the cup of water and talking him through that. They should be explaining to him why his cousin is upset and remove him from the room until he can be gentle. If they're not doing these sorts of things he will not understand and will be frustrated and will act out worse. I imagine he must feel very sad not being able to understand why he's getting things wrong. I think your daughter must be incredibly frightened and needs you to remove her immediately when he's getting aggressive and explaining that you're keeping her safe.

I'd actually say to him "leave (insert your daughter's name) alone! You stay the fuck away from her you obnoxious little shit, or I will hurt you the way you keep hurting her."

Yeah, that’ll teach a four year old child to become a caring and pleasant person. He’s four. However difficult, aggressive, jealous, attention seeking or nasty he is, it’s not his fault. He’s a preschooler.

@KarenOLantern Do you think he could be SEN or on the autistic spectrum?

I'd be out of there and I'd tell the truth about why. Alex is not being adequately supervised and his behaviour towards DD is dangerous. If you stay you'll be on edge the whole time trying to keep her from serious harm and that is not an enjoyable break - you'd be better at home.

@Joystir59 I hope you wouldn't, sounds an awful way to speak in front of children. Remove your child, protect your child and speak to their parents

He's too old to be behaving like that. It's the sort of behaviour I'd expect from a very young toddler.

Irrelevant - his behaviour is dangerous and harmful to the OPs younger and more vulnerable child. It doesn’t matter WHY he’s doing it - HIS PARENTS should be supervising him more closely to make sure his behaviour is NOT a danger to others.

Being autistic or anything else isn’t an excuse for the PARENTS failing to supervise their child properly.

And if you have a child with additional needs who is unable to regulate their own behaviour for whatever reason - it’s all the more reason for the parents to be right there to help do it for them.

if the parents can’t be bothered to supervise their child appropriately for his needs (whether he has additional needs or not) then any resulting harm is THEIR fault - for a complete lack of adequate supervision and parenting.

I am astounded that you've allowed your child to be tortured for so long. You should have left days ago.

Inappropriate assumptions if this is the first thing you come to. Not really necessary when you don’t know all the details.

OP I hope you've left by now!

YANBU.
Not normal boy behaviour if he had parents that didn’t treat him like a little prince.
My friend has a 4yo DS and he’s an angel, due to her parenting, but he’s the only one I know 🙈

Didn’t RTFT, sorry.
Could be mistreatment, poor kid. Report to authorities if you’re concerned.

@ImustLearn2Cook Good advice

OP you need to be supervising like a hawk

Not normal at all, ime. I've seen a lot of boisterous 4 yos, and met a few who lack social skills in interacting with other children (not sharing, pushing, occasional hitting for example), but I've never come across that level of uncontrolled aggression in a 4 year old. A few of my friends' children might have behaved in some of the ways you describe at 2, but certainly by 4 most of them had grown out of it and would understand that it was totally unacceptable to behave like that to a smaller child.

I have never seen either of my grandsons when aged 4 act like your nephew. Their parents would have had them on time out immediately.
Please take your 2-year-old home now.

I agree with you- I'd be addressing the parents in those very blunt Anglo Saxon terms

I cannot believe you have stayed 5 days and allowed your 2 year old to be subjected to that.

Pack up and go home as you are unable to keep her safe.

This is not normal behaviour it sounds as if jealousy could be in the mix but whatever it is, he is tormenting your child.

Pack up and go home.

As for your MIL, I certainly wouldn't trust her to mind both of them together if she thinks that behaviour is acceptable.

You are letting your two year old be seriously, physically bullied. She is watching her mummy just allow this to happen. Go home right now.

My nephew used to do this to my dd. Similar age gap. I used to intervene everytime and call put his behaviour for what it was ,'naughty'. His parents too would trot out the line that their son was so kind and caring towards his cousin. What kind of 'kind' behaviour results in the other child screaming or getting scared? It finally stopped when bil said only he had a right to tell his child off and I answered back that if he hit my dd again I would be telling him off and if he didn't want that to happen he better parent and manage his child's behaviour. Nepheew is older now and mostly a lovely boy but he is very used to getting his own way which makes mine not want to play with him. All children can be boisterous and roughly handle younger children, mine too. It's up to me though as a parent to he on alert and actively parent, so distract and move away, explain how and what is ok. Of course you don't want to demonise a 4 year old but the parents should be intervening and teaching him what is acceptable.

Yanbu, they are behaving like shits. Leave and explain why.