To think that the NHS had lost the plot over breastfeeding?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10892531/NHS-accused-putting-babies-harm-advice-trans-women-wanting-breastfeed.html

It feels like some kind of bizarre experiment - except it's babies who are being used for affirmation.

Am I being gaslit here?

There are no studies which have examined the quality of the liquid men produce from their nipples following stimulation. We do know that none of them have ever produced anywhere near enough liquid of any quantity to match the amount a breastfed infant needs.

This is the pertinent point.

Quite why anyone is wasting their time and energy on this nonsense is anyone's guess. I can only hope it's not taking time/money/expertise away from the support of women who are breastfeeding - which is still woefully under resourced.

Maybe if the NHS was less hysterical about breastfeeding being the only possible good way to feed a baby trans people wouldn't feel the need to do this. But hald of the people denoucning this will be the same people crying that gays and trans women can't have children because how will they breastfeed them?

These secretions aren't for the baby.

It's a lot of effort to benefit a male's wants.

I agree with this, I had a fantastic lactation consultant because she supported parents in the NICU and I really wish every woman had access to someone like her.

@Clymene

I don't understand this comment

None of the examples you cite would be helped by domperidone

Domperidone wouldn't help the latch etc obviously, that's why you sort that out first and then try domperidone later if production hasn't improved.

Maybe if the NHS was less hysterical about breastfeeding being the only possible good way to feed a baby trans people wouldn't feel the need to do this

Agree!

"We have covered this topic extensively on here before incidentally"

Covered implies that is has been rationally debated by people without bias.

Unfortunately on MN this isn't possible (by both sides), and I've yet to see a thread that hasn't descended into hysteria.

There are valid arguments against a transwomen attempting to breastfeed, based of the current lack of good quality evidence, but none are in that DM article. It's just written to whip up transphobia and anger towards the NHS. Looks to have suceeded.

Helen Joyce both explained and predicted these developments. They will not stop there. Give it a decade, and nearly everything everyone has written on this thread will be a criminal offence.

There are valid arguments against a transwomen attempting to breastfeed, based of the current lack of good quality evidence

Thats exactly what Clymene is saying, so looks like everyone's in agreement on this issue 😉

@AgathaAllAlong That's not really how AGP works.

Yep, and you have women like some of the ones on this thread just happy to roll over and let it happen. Trying to be so inclusive that you erase women altogether is not admirable.

There are valid arguments against a transwomen attempting to breastfeed, based of the current lack of good quality evidence, but none are in that DM article. It's just written to whip up transphobia and anger towards the NHS. Looks to have suceeded

Also fully agree with this!

Going to step away from this thread now as I have shit to do.

Trying to be so inclusive that you erase women altogether is not admirable.

How long will it take for this to sink in?

There are valid arguments against a transwomen attempting to breastfeed, based of the current lack of good quality evidence, but none are in that DM article. It's just written to whip up transphobia and anger towards the NHS. Looks to have suceeded

Yep. The article is just scaremongering about domperiodone.

Indeed, as the drug is primarily used as an anti-nausea drug. I screenshot the section on use during breastfeeding which says

"Domperidone is sometimes used to increase milk supply."

I haven't made the claim it is never used.

I just do not think "sometimes" equates to "widely" as some posters have stated

Unfortunately on MN this isn't possible (by both sides), and I've yet to see a thread that hasn't descended into hysteria.

The thread where this was covered wasn't "hysterical" - such a sexist term.

It discussed basic safeguarding and medical implications/ impact v evidence and motivations.

If a safety and safeguarding concern is met with "it's hysterical and phobic," definitely all the more reason to listen to the concerns. Eg Rotherham scandal.

So anti women which ever way you look at it.

I don’t think they are hysterical. It’s against the law nearly everywhere in the world to promote formula - because it’s unethical (because if someone cannot afford formula and their milk dries up then serious problem!)

Surely you know that? It’s not a purity thing for purity’s sake.

And with the cost of living crisis and the recent formula shortage in America I think it’s safe to say no one is 100% immune from this issue however privileged we are in the west.

Too late I'm fearing.

@dolorsit sorry, that comment was primarily aimed at clymene.

Really actually leaving the thread now.

I've known women who struggled with supply and none of them were prescribed Domperidone.

She didn't call her personally a cis woman, she called natal women in general cis women. You lot do yourselves no favours with this langauge policing. Ciswoman is a perfectly normal and acceptable turn of phrase, and is particularly helpful to differentiate when we are talking specifically about things to which (cis)women and trans women react differently to. You don't get to dictate other people's normal use of language.

Some people find the term birth mum and adoptive mum offensive (she's not my birth mum, she's just the woman who have birth to me, she's not my adoptive mum, she's my mum). You absolutely ought not use them to talk about someone who ahs said they don't like this terminology. But it's still fine and normal language to use in general.

Btw I do not identify as a cis woman either, I don't like the terminology because I think it implies that I confirm to all the social aspects of my natal sex, including those that I find oppressive. But that I have these associations to the term does not mean that others can't use it.

The lactophilia Reddit currently has over 87,000 members by the way.

I disagree.

I refer to men & women of any orientation as being "hysterical" if I think they are. As someone with various uterus based health issues I'm pretty keen on reclaiming the term, but happy to not use it if it offends you.

I followed the thread and there were huge numbers of accusations about transwomen doing it as a sexual fetish and accusing them of paedophilia - this is what I think is unreasonable & transphobic. These are things the gay community were also accused of back in the day.

As I've said - I don't think it should be recommended & there are valid reasons why it shouldn't be. But it is really quite offensive to throw those kind of accusations around when there is a much more obvious and rational reasoning around why a transwomen wants to breastfeed their child.